Really don’t want discuss this anymore but I can’t let this slide.
ZorinGroup is using Gnome exactly as Gnome was intended. That is why extensions exist in the first place. So you could tweak it to your specific needs.
There isn’t any “disagreement” as you are putting it.
You basically just made my entire argument. ZorinGroup uses Gnome because it is THE BEST available to them. It may be the best because the work to replace it is not worth it, or it may simply fit well with their agenda but the fact is they use it because they feel it will let them put out the best product possible.
Look, I think it is fine if you do not like SystemD that is fine. But pretending it is a "bad" is flat out wrong. I personally do not care about this argument much either way. I trust the developers of each OS to decide what is best for their distro.
I think you need to do a bit more research into Gnome. In fact, Gnome refers to Extensions as "hacks" and a "niche thing". Gnome developers have voiced a desire to eliminate them entirely and Gnome refuses any responsibility for Extensions as they are Third Party and notes that they can break or cause system disruption at any time. No... Extensions are not at all what Gnome intended.
They were actually a bit shocked when users started creating so many of them.
Well... Fair enough. I am fine with the wording.
I think we both can agree, based on what you just said, that it is viable to examine and question the faults and flaws with any system component. Whether it be SystemD, Gnome, Wayland or anything else.
Holding accountability for the products we are beholden to is very important. That we did not really do so with Microsoft - gave us Windows 11.
That we did not with Android gave us the Tightest Lockdown of a kernel ever seen.
That we did not do so with Apple gave us the most proprietary source we have on the planet and allowed Apple to rival Microsoft in financial gains, in spite of it being 10% of the market that Microsoft holds.
Disagreement can be frustrating in a moment, but it is a Good Thing. It allows us to test our opinions and ideas and see if they are valuable or worthless.
Examining our products is similar, it can be trying, but it ensures we get the uhhh... Best Products available by holding developers accountable, not just trusting them.
The entire reason I am on Linux is because my trust has been broken by developers again and again and again. It is their own interests they prefer over ours.
What do you expect them to say? Same thing a game will say if you install mods.
The fact is Gnome natively supports extensions.
I agree with everything else in that post btw. I am not trying to attack or undermine you. I just have a great deal of faith in the many great Linux developers out there and refuse to believe that the vast majority are wrong.
Ok ...
But this still means that users of either the game or the D.E. are not using it as the developer intended.
And I must point out that extensions are not really natively supported. There is not a component in Gnome that is "for ensuring extensions work" or anything. Rather, extensions are built tapping into the existing structure of Gnome Shell.
While we are on the topic of Gnome. Do you know why on earth theming Gnome is so complicated these days?
I would be all for a Gnome replacement to come around but imo there is just nothing out there as good overall. The rigid views of the Gnome team is pretty annoying.
XFCE/KDE/Cinnamon can be configured tolerably but I just never can make a workflow in it that works as well for me.
At no point have you made me personally feel attacked. You are strong in your position and I can definitely pick up on your frustration.
I can easily see how and why you might perceive what has been said here as suggesting a conspiracy - and why that needed to be clarified.
And it is fine to have respect and faith in many of the Linux Developers. This does not mean, however, that we should have faith in all of their intentions or their decisions.
Many of us are already well aware of the inside politics that were involved in the adoption of systemd, and it has been discussed for many years with more information coming out each year. This was not a case of it being tested and determined the Best Available - it just wasn't. This is not stuff we just made up - this is what the Debian Developers themselves said.
And Lennart Poettering and Kay Severs have earned no respect. Their actions and treatment of the users have earned them the exact opposite.
It is critical that we examine these things without emotion and uphold what makes Linux great in order to keep it great.
Yes, I absolutely do.
And aside from a few exceptions made at specific request by users I respect - I generally do not theme Gnome, anymore.
Look up information on Gnome and you are bound to come across the words "polished" and "modern." But Gnome is actually very unpolished. The widgets do not line up with each other or even overlap each other. The apps can vary between using the notebook stack and the window class. This causes them to have different borders or to line up differently.
And in Gnome 40+, Gnome devs wrote in LibAdwaita in order to lock in theming to be only Gnome Created Themes that fall under the Adwaita Umbrella.
See, the uhh.... trending... "Modern" look is one that Gnome created: Flat and monochromatic. Theming Flat and mono is much, much easier than creating any other kind - plus, with different widgets containing One Monochromatic background, it hides the unpolished edges, overlapping or interlapping widgets and other problems.
If you enjoy flat and monochrome, though, there is still a lot of theming you can do. @Storm produces beautiful Gnome themes. And you can do some color-based changes using the app Oomox.
Also, the LibAdwaita furor has resulted in several independent developers looking to create a new gnome-like D.E. (similar to Budgie) that may be quite good.
Sort of like how Mate got started - we may see some improvement in the future with new options. https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-ecosystem/
I concur on Budgie but that is down to the fact that it was created in Solus - where in the forums I was threatened with being banned for referring to posts I made in this forum (as I did not want to 'reinvent the wheel'). Also the creator pilched a wallpaper and admitted so to a former (deceased) moderator on here.
I reading that a hot conversation. Both sides have experiences. The good and bad. Only the future gived us answers, because Linux is changing every day.
Rust propably will change something in Linux world.
@SignorCastello POP OS working on DE in rust. I saw some project with rust and they used in servers and dockers.
Programmers sayed it is very hard and weird, many people start creating many things and software in rust.
It is young but reading more security.
About the people from that all big a companies Canonical,Red Hat and etc vs compare experience with @Aravisian must sayed, @Aravisian have a big knowledge about a linux and he is not worst from developers Canonical or Red Hat - could be also sometimes better from devs, where devs taking a battle with a piece a cakes where exist a money.
Do you know developers Canonical or Red Hat?
They propably don't taken a time talking with you. @Aravisian gived you pros and cons.
Developers some distribution doesn't mean they must be a big group.
We have many examples: TempleOS - 1 person
Ultimate Edition - 1 person
Nobara - 1 person
Zorin - 2 person
Cachy OS - 3 person
Debian,Mint,Ubuntu and Redhat or POP OS - they are a corporation what taking move to be a better for them.
What about a Gnome - they are huge library app what ae not tested and moe risky to installing some virus.
Gnome for me is something like a shell what was used on Windows 10 where you can back your Desktop to the back old windows 7 design.
The devs what are very high focus on Gnome design is Fedora.
What is better sysinit ot systemd - that is political discussion like this years, but propably a control people with telemetry - example manjaro some last article will implement that.
If you are using Chrome,Facebook or any software what belong to big corporation they using telemetry also if you using a Linux.
Telemetry is only one problem.
In my own opinion, the larger problem is the grouping of people into Bubbles of Influence.
Thinking only by greed, these big corporations wish to capitalize on marketing and Interest. They probably did not intend for the result we now see; they were blinded by money and did not think things all the way through.
By appealing to consumers interests, individuals no longer have a well-rounded informational experience. Now, individuals are isolated into Bubbles where the only external interests given to them are the ones that they already agree with.
Without debate, dissent or opposition, no one has an impetus any more to test and question their assumptions or opinions. To grow and develop.
They no longer are exposed to different ideas to check their merit.
And we, as a people, are becoming more divided in the Age of Information.
Which is very, very odd.
Telemetry is used for more than just marketing. It is dividing us from our own people. It is allowing large swathes of the population to be exposed to misinformation, propaganda and the worst of all...
It is sowing confusion.
Many people are left unsure of what to believe, anymore.
We are becoming more complacent with the idea of letting others do the thinking for us.
This is one reason why being willing to learn and retaining control over our own desktops is essential. Yet, the Big Corps even in Linux are removing that control over our own machines, bit by bit.
To quote Walt Kelly's Pogo:
"We have met the enemy and he is us."
Last time I saw on youtube a detective reporter about a person who sayed "I am a star". He start digging and nobody checked that person and everyone watching on this person " I am a star hollywod". What he show us that " a star " is nobody. That is example when you digging something on webbrowser google chrome, youtube also on facebook and some big corporation a software. They used a filter to a control what you can find and what you cannot find.
They automatic deleted some movies on yt if you used some words.
What i can sayed also difficult find a people who thinking realistic and more people life in virtuality world.
Virtual world you don't need thinking and using a brain. Why? Because, you believe what exist there.
How many youtubers selling a products what a really don't worth that a price?
The list could be huge but the real worth a price have a people with a history, family and people what are not selfish and greed a money.
