Disappointed in the Zorin Group (web apps)

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I found out today that the Web Apps feature in Zorin OS is actually Linux Mint's web apps program in disguise. The Zorin Group basically took Linux Mint's application and passed it off as theirs. Or more accurately, they allowed the belief to exist that the web apps feature was developed by Zorin internally for Zorin OS. At least that's my own impression. When Zorin OS 18 was announced, the Zorin Group made a big deal about web apps and how they were "new" to Zorin OS. I knew about Linux Mint's web apps feature, but it didn't occur to me until today that what was advertised for Zorin OS is actually the same thing as what Linux Mint uses.

I understand about how applications in Linux are "shared" between distributions. I get it. It's open source, etc. Again, I get it. I do. But my issue is with how it was passed off as something "new" in Zorin OS 18 that was a result of actual work done by the Zorin Group when in fact it was basically taking something already done and making a big deal about it; in essence, taking credit for it and plugging it in Zorin OS while allowing it to release with as many bugs as it has had. This begs the question: What did the Zorin Group do in the extensive lead-up they had going from Zorin OS 17 to Zorin OS 18? People need to be asking these kind of questions.

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I... really don't agree. Neither calling something new nor new to Zorin 18 strike me as meaning internally developed, only that it wasn't in previous versions of Zorin. In past versions, Feral Gamemode was touted as new. It's not Zorin's either.

I'm not trying to suggest you're wrong to have read it that way, but for a matter like this, where the problem isn't a feature, policy, or implementation, but impressions based on what amounts to advertising, I feel like it's important to be clear that the negative reading isn't universal.

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Yup, its new to ZorinOS, not new to linux. It works both ways.

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Wait until you learn that it's actually based on Peppermint OS's ICE application...

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Well, it is new to Zorin ... it wasn't available before. I think, it is okay. I mean beneath the Linux Mint Thing, You can find different Progams, too from this Sort. Examples: Quick Webb Apps, Web Apps, Spider.

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Well, nowhere was stated it's a in-house tool, so there was no lie.
At the same time, as far as I'm concerned webapp-manager is not available in standard Ubuntu repos, as it was previously a Mint-specific tool.
Still, it is beneficial for Linux newbies coming from Windows. It might not be a 1:1 replacement to Adobe Creative or MS Office suite, but I'd say we're getting somewhere...

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Using 'Perplexity' search engine in zen browser returns:

#Which distros include Web Apps like Linux Mint's webapp manager

Linux Mint is currently the only major desktop distribution that actually ships Linux Mint’s own Web Apps (webapp‑manager) as a first‑class, officially supported component by default.​

Where Mint’s Web Apps is included

  • Linux Mint (Cinnamon, MATE, Xfce): Webapp‑manager is developed and maintained by the Mint team and comes preinstalled on current Mint releases.​
  • Other distros (Ubuntu, Pop!_OS, KDE Neon, Debian, etc.) do not include it by default, but users often install the Mint .deb package manually to get the same Web Apps tool.​​

Related or predecessor projects

  • Peppermint OS ships its own web‑app tool called Ice, which gives very similar site‑specific browser “web apps” (and was an inspiration/fork ancestor of Mint’s tool).​​
  • Some lightweight or niche distros (antiX, others) can run Mint’s or Peppermint’s managers, but they are added by the user rather than being part of the official install image.​​

If you want Mint‑style Web Apps elsewhere

  • On Ubuntu, Pop!_OS, KDE Neon, Zorin, Debian‑based distros, users commonly download and install the Linux Mint webapp‑manager .deb and use it without major issues.​​
  • On non‑Debian distros (Fedora, openSUSE, Arch), there is usually no native Mint Web Apps package; people instead use alternatives (Peppermint Ice builds, AUR ports, FirefoxPWA, browser PWAs) to get similar functionality.

​​# Which Linux distributions have web apps functionality

Several mainstream desktop Linux distributions provide built‑in “web apps” tools (site‑specific browsers or PWA‑style wrappers), and any distribution can gain similar functionality by installing the right packages.​

Distros with built‑in web apps

  • Linux Mint (Cinnamon, MATE, Xfce) includes a native Web Apps tool (webapp‑manager) that lets you turn any site into a standalone window with its own launcher icon and isolated browser profile.​
  • Some Ubuntu‑based spins and derivatives occasionally package Mint’s webapp‑manager or similar wrappers, but Mint is the main distribution that officially ships and maintains this tool as a core feature.​

Getting web apps on other distros

Even if a distribution does not advertise “web apps” as a feature, you can add it yourself:

  • Install webapp‑manager from Linux Mint’s GitHub or third‑party repositories on compatible Ubuntu‑based systems; it is a Python front‑end that launches a regular browser in app mode with a separate profile and no browser chrome.​
  • Use browser‑native features such as Chromium/Chrome “Create shortcut as window” or Progressive Web Apps (PWA) install, which work on virtually any Linux distribution that can run those browsers.​

What to choose

  • For an out‑of‑the‑box desktop experience with integrated web apps management, Linux Mint is the clearest choice.​
  • If you prefer another distribution (Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch, etc.), rely on browser PWA support or install webapp‑manager manually where available, since the underlying capability is not tied strongly to any one distro.​

Which distros include Web Apps like Linux Mint's webapp manager

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Yep, don't forget Zorin Connect, which is based on KDE Connect, and those that have used both say, KDE Connect is still better. I think a lot of Linux distro's and apps, are all based on other's work, there isn't a whole lot of originality.

Now, having said that, once in awhile, someone in the Linux community, will make something original. Possibly POP OS's Cosmic might be all original, but I never used POP OS when Cosmic became a thing, so I can't speak with experience.

I truly do not believe that the Zorin team intended to plagiarize others work, and call it their own. This is not the first time the Zorin team worded a blog post improperly. I really think they could use a blog writer on their team, to prevent writing mistakes like that.

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I think what everyone needs to be paying extra close attention to is this part I said before. I understand about open source and sharing applications across different distributions. I get that completely. In a way, it's not so much about that as it truly is about the question I asked in my original post. So the Zorin Group took an app made by Linux Mint and advertised it as a new thing in Zorin OS 18. Fine; whatever. But what did Artyom and Kyrill do in the huge, massive lead-up time they had going from Zorin OS 17 to Zorin OS 18? They use older versions of Ubuntu to base Zorin OS on, and they charge money for a "pro" version. Yet Zorin OS 17 and 18 were released with bugs and bugs. Look at the upgrader. It's all messed up. Look at all the UI/UX discrepancies. Look at how people can't uninstall some apps unless they go into the terminal. And so on and on. I have had to advocate for myself many times in my life, as well as for others, too; both personally and professionally. That is the spirit in which I am coming from, at least partially - the spirit of advocacy to do the "right thing." The Zorin Group did not do the right thing when they evidently did not take action to fix Zorin OS before release (which is made worse by the fact that they had a massive amount of lead-up time prior to release to patch things and perform bugfixes, but simply did not). The only reasonable conclusion anyone can reach is that they knowingly released Zorin OS both times with the problems it had. And that's not OK. People need to view the Zorin Group through this specific lens; to understand the significance behind their actions (or lack thereof) and self-evident outcomes (e.g., multiple bugs). Anyway ... I'm done. Happy New Year. :partying_face:

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For a long time, many of us thought that the Arc Menu was a base for Zorin Menu.
But it turned out to be the other way around. And this was true of several extensions, where the ZorinGroup had been the originator.

In addition to this, the ZorinGroup have donated funds from Zorin Pro to many of these forked developments, not only encouraging them, but supporting, as well.

@Omnimaxus asks an age old question. Lacking a roadmap or very active community interaction, we are left with making assumptions. Sometimes, our assumptions were wrong: Arc Menu was forked off of Zorin Menu.

The question of accountability is an essential question that applies globally to all.
When you report a bug on github, you often get a reply directly from that developer or maintainer.
But on Zorin OS, even if that bug is seen, read and the ZorinGroup are actively working 18 hours a day trying to solve it, we do not know.
Nothing is in place to tell us if they are working on it, know about it, are mostly playing video games or golfing, or what.

This is the crux of the problem.
We all know a new release will bring bugs. And we all know that not all of them are a specific developers fault. With 18, we saw Wine, Samba and Updater bugs, all of which are Upstream of ZorinGroup.
With accountability, when we see someone working to resolve - our human nature is to cheer them on.
Without it, our human nature defaults to feeling unheard and ignored.

The takeaway from this thread, which is not the only of its kind:
It's about visibility. It is not about the current bug of the week, nor about Web Apps and who made 'em.

It is about an unstable foundation of silence and uncertainty. And there are actions that he ZorinGroup can take to mitigate these, without needing to work longer than a normal workday.
A roadmap and a bug reporting feature that gives feedback would go a very long way.

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You've said that you're using MX Linux in other post, which I have recently installed as well as I wanted to try their new release. Overall, I found it to be quite nice, but there were two major issues for me:

  1. None of the laptop keyboard keys would wake the computer up; I have to use an external keyboard. The power button would just shut it down.

  2. More importantly, waking up is a hit or miss as it would sometimes shutdown instead.

Previous versions of MX Linux on the same laptop worked fine for me, so this was obviously very surprising. And as I don't have the time right now to troubleshoot things, I've just installed Debian back again.

The moral of the story is: our own experiences don't necessarily translate to others.

And this is what you're ignoring every time you create one of these threads to complain about Zorin OS 18. There are plenty of users who are perfectly happy running it, some of which have said so this much in this forum, which invalidate your claims of self-evident outcomes.
Though most happy users won't bother to create an account just to share that, which is why you see only the bad parts here.

Yes, the release of Zorin OS 18 has had a lot of issues. But consider that even companies like Microsoft have made even worse blunders for years with things like updates wiping people's drives.

These things, they happen even to the best of us. And the Zorin developers have done good things in the past, too. That buys them some good faith in my book.

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As always, I appreciate your efforts to bring a balanced perspective to these sort of discussions online. Same for seeing things (like this thread) for what they really are. (In this case, "visibility," as you succinctly pointed out - exactly right - and the web apps and bugs are surrounding instances of context that support and/or prop up the main point, which is really "visibility" in the end.) The Zorin forum is fortunate to have you on board. I agree re: roadmap and bug reporting. Completely. Thank you.

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He Gets It Kieran Culkin GIF by SuccessionHBO

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Hi there. I will keep my reply short.

Sorry to hear MX Linux didn't work out 100% in your case.

True enough. At the same time, I like to think I've pointed out bugs that are present across the board. I've had the same bugs occur on different sets of hardware (e.g., my PC and a spare MacBook). Others have also validated the same things I've brought up (e.g., not being able to uninstall some apps via Software Center).

Fair.

That is true about Microsoft. Also fair.

Look, I'm not anti-Zorin. I really am not. If anything, I would love to make it my everyday OS, but the bugs and whatnot stop me from doing so. I've come to like and appreciate other OSes like MX Linux, which I daily drive, and have done so for over a month now going on two. In responding to you here, I'm apt to say that I've grown a bit weary of this ongoing thing (not you; just this whole line of discussion). Bottom line is, I would like to see the Zorin Group do better. Because I do actually like the OS. They have a great concept and the OS absolutely nails the "look." But it's been disappointment after disappointment. Plus, the silence and the lack of a roadmap and bug reporting does not help at all. Just ... yeah. It's "whatever" at this point.

Moving on. Thanks for replying, though.

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I understand, I'm also not exactly happy that there are this many issues. I've only upgraded to Z18 in a couple of computers (which have been working fine so far) but am I'm still running Z17 on others that I'd like to upgrade at some point.

But it's not like this is the end of the world, either. I have no reason to think that they are releasing Zorin OS with bugs on purpose, or anything like that. In fact, I've noticed that Nautilus doesn't crash anymore (one of the main issues that was present shortly after release). From what I've seen at least.

Remember when the Samsung S5 (I think it was the S5) was banned from getting into airplanes because they freaking exploded in people's hands? Technology is hard...

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I do! And that was one of, if not the, first cell phones, to go up in flames, because it didn't like the websites the user was going to. The Samsung AI says, "Buy a girlfriend?" "I beg your pardon!" "I'm the only lady your ever gonna need!" "Where would you be without me ha?" "You'd still be twirling those rotary dials like a circus act!"

Then when the breakup happened, thats why the battery went full meltdown. Oh well, thats like 400 down the drain, care to try again? :wink:

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Thank you for acknowledging that, at least.

I will say this: They could've done a heck lot better with Q&A in the lead-up.

Alright; good discussion. I'm done. Cheers. :+1:

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Well, I am nowhere near done and no one is going to convince me to become done for their comfort or convenience.

Speaking for myself, I fully intend to keep the heat turned up and never roll over.

Throwing Lite in the trash can on insufficient evidence and poorly supported assumptions; further incursions of LibAdwaita and a lack of clear RoadMapping, developer silence and increased Microsoft-like controls and domineering are fully sufficient reasons to have a 'tude and my roadmap is to be hard like a rock.

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Point of clarity: I meant for this round. I'll always be up for another round, but who knows when that'll be? But yes. I hear you completely on all counts. Agreed 100%.

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I have to agree with the points made in the discussion the lack of communication from the people in charge of Zorin OS. This becomes more problematic especially when Windows 11 users are actually open to trying linux distribution Zorin OS and this is not a good first impression with all the bugs. Then there is no page that shows known issues, Windows 11 has that already with every build and I do not know if the Zorin OS developers have enough information to fix bugs especially ones that do not happen to everybody since I do not know if they collect any telemetry besides the Zorin OS Census which I believe just tracks installations and active users correct me if wrong on that.