I switched to Windows temporarily...And I have made some observations

I also experienced it on Windows 10 and 11 both and it was a big part of the altercation early in this thread.
I experienced several issues with Windows that both Microsoft and websites (thus, the user in this thread at the time) all said never happen.
It was sufficient enough to make me question my perceptions of reality.

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There was a time frame were updates were automatic and you had to opt out, same with major update such as 2h2* most updates for windows can be done with a scheduled reboot time-frame, the major upgrade ones usually force a reboot as they update core components. the version of windows you have also affects the behavior as home users have less control over update time and deferment that professional keyed, and enterprise licensed have full control over patch and update release.

Something else that occurs is when upgrades happen not all keys are wiped and if windows 10 had a user set reboot time or key by an application the windows 11 install would honor that. So MS would say No we won't auto reboot, but in reality it imported a key and does

After update all going to fabric settings windows? The same when you must accept when you doing first installation. Ofcourse login to microsoft account on chromebook. Full control operating system have on user. That why i am not using W10 when operating system choice better option and don't gived me option what is best for me.

My 2c on W10 vs W11 - I don't like that W11 has artificially limited the hardware they support, leaving a ton of older pc's out. Out of those maybe 0.1% of people (like me) will know how to bypass the checks when making an iso (its very easy with tools like Rufus etc) and do a clean install, once installed everything of course works just like it did since the TPM is never used by anyone.

I also hate the advertising in Start Menu as well as the obnoxious attempts to switch to Edge (even though Edge is quite good).

But..... W11 is nicer. The myriad settings actually are nicely organized. Performance seems a bit better. Things are cleaner. These are all minor things but they matter. There's official support for Windows Terminal + WSL, which is very welcome.

To me, MS is no worse and arguably better than Apple/Google and 100000x better than FB when it comes to privacy, and both those companies have a ton more data on you, even if you never used Google (very unlikely) or FB (even with no account they have data on you).

BSODs are gone. No one needs AV on WIndows anymore. Its actually a faster and smaller OS than previous versions. It supports all the modern standards, battery life is fantastic and it supports every hw ever made. And it can run just fine on a $300 pc you dont need a 2.5K Mac. I think these are things to be admired and that the Linux community can give credit to. Much like both MS and Apple know how great Linux is and depend on it.

Does this make me want to use Windows more. No. In fact I switched to Zorin. But I keep an open mind, all OSs have their pros/cons, take the best from each and learn what you can.


What I can sayed more? I have original a key win10 Pro and I have pc for them fast and when I want installing him. I have some barrier about stealing my soul. When i go back and will seeing how many things is usable and overfull many things for colecct what are you doing in your life sending all info to microsoft server. Yes maybe it is better for games and another things but I am not to young and my life isn't like a tiger it more like a turtle life with peace and patient.

Windows XP was released in 2001.
Windows Vista was released 6 years later in 2007.
Windows 7 came out not long after in 2009 after two years.
8 Hit the shelves in 2012 following four years after 7.
Windows 10 was three years after that in 2015.
And Windows 11 was recent to us, in 2021, 6 years after the release of 10.

Meanwhile... in another Universe...
Zorin OS 16 was released in August of 2021. In August of 2021, users began asking when Zorin OS 17 would be released. Zorin OS follows a pretty steady year and 7mo release cycle.

Back in the original Universe, people comment that Windows shows greater app support and stability with those apps. That OS that gets released somewhere between 2 and 6 years apart.
I'm just sayin'...

Windows users think very little about how old an app is. Windows users happily use the same apps and OS for many years at a time. Windows users often refuse the WIndows OS upgrade and stick to their current version. We still have a huge number of XP Users out there.
Windows users migrate to Linux.
Suddenly, an app 15 weeks old is considered outdated and they must have the latestgreatestnewesttastiestapplicationeverdevelopedonplanetearth.
I'm just sayin'...

What... psychology... is at work, here?

The evidence is overwhelming. Users prefer stability and long term support. Hands down. The numbers simply are beyond debate.
And yet... Where does this push for the latest come from?
I have an idea...


For me i bought many software with license and spend money what worked before but not now. Microsoft delete from servers and files where i cannot use that. What a shame dirty corporation.

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Microsoft if following on the Successful Heels of Blizzard and Bethesda...

Subscription Services are the new thing.
You do not get to own what you pay for, anymore.
Because it works out much better for the companies, that's why.

Promote something as "free", then take the money for it in other ways.

I have just after W7 experience with 8.0 , 8.1 all 10 version and 11 one word is like a control your moves chess and mind to be blind.
Younger generation birthday with electronics.
Old time people writing memories on book of life or something now everything put on some social channels or fb,twitter and so on. Maybe I am little alien but i don't bedtime with electronics. The same i hearing a all gps smartwach information and app will be selling to insurance health and they will know everything before 7 years how you lived. Or it just now exist.

I read that Netflix are suffering from the economic downturn. Looks like subscription models are now beginning to run out of steam after their relentless rise to fame.

I my opinion the comparison between "all you can eat" movie consumption and the subscription of a software package is a little odd. While trying to learn zorinOS and setting everything up like my workspace on win11 before, I searched for an oneDrive client and came across the inSync software.

They have (had?) an one time pay / purchase and get a lifetime licence modell until now. But look what the founder wrote lately:


"The biggest mistake we made was in the beginning – when we offered Insync as a one-time paid model, which included a lifetime license + support. As it turns out, this model is not sustainable despite our relatively low costs. Continued development, including bug fixing and support, became a capital expenditure that couldn't be amortized over the lifetime value of a customer since we don’t have such a concept. Customers pay once, and that’s it."

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Long-term support clearly reduces economic burden on consumers. I installed Zorin OS on my favorite little steel desktop when I heard the unbelievable announcement that Windows 11 would not support Ryzen 5 2400G. This worked fine and they will not die in 2025.

However, there is no doubt that the greedy big techs are not happy about these alternatives existing.

Frankly....I think the OP has been trolling. :slight_smile:

Out of the box, no Windows OS has ever been stable for me. I have had every Win OS up to Windows 7, I stopped there. I stayed on W2K until 2011 and then was forced to Win 7. From Win 7 to Zorin Linux. I had to make every Win OS stable by use of available MS tools or "secrets"...which you could buy from MS. By that I mean books, knowledge, etc. Developers know what I am talking about.

Linux offers stability but it still lacks in simplicity and familiarity. Linux developers seemed intent on using odd-ball names for programs, and convoluted GUI's for those same programs. That is where the lack of familiarity comes into play.

But, but, the greatest difference between Linux and Microsoft is that there is only one Microsoft and there are numerous Linux distributions. That lack of continuity is what has kept Linux at the bottom of the pile. Red Hat understood that and I remember when they went private and the ensuing wailing and gnashing of teeth. Their developers, professional coders fully understood what it would take for their distro to succeed and make a difference. Most of the remaining distro devs and wanna-be's at the time were too concerned about being nerds, geeks, maintaining the open source mantra and thus being Linux saviors to the open source world.

Zorin is a bit different and goes a long way to resolving some of that familiarity issue Windows users will have. But Zorin nor any distro can force printer makers, joy stick makers, etc. to provide code for their product to work with Linux.

Nor can one expect software houses to do the same. There is a dashcam oriented program that is for Windows 10 and above only. That developer has cut out a ton of potential sales because there are a ton of us that will not move from 7 to 10 or 11. He has believed the MS mantra that only 10 is alive today. Odd thing is that he once supported 7...now does not. His loss.

No one sitting at a screen or monitor should ever, ever expect Linux and Windows to behave the same, have the same programs, etc. That is just unrealistic. For those that can not get past that "reality" then they should move on or at least do as many of us do and that is to use Linux all that we can and use Windows for a few other things.


This is a good point. In my opinion, I do not believe in subscription services in general.
But being opinionated does not make me right.

There are probably many examples of businesses that succeed with a Pay-once model.
And there are probably many examples of business that could not succeed with one.
Movies are an example of those that succeed, massively, with a Pay-Once model.
So are video games.
With these examples, we see subscription as being a means toward greed, not sustainability. This is problematic since the greed leads toward pay-to-win and other unsettling or even destructive behaviors.

In Computing, Software Engineers must get paid to do work.
Without Open Books that show whether the pay-once model works, we can be hard pressed to believe that it doesn't work when it succeeds in so many places.

Especially when you narrow down what they customer buys. If you buy a one-time license for the product, regardless of developments, I can see that failing.
But many don't. Zorin OS Pro is one example of getting the product per Major Release, not for the lifetime of its existence.
Old Playstation and Sega Games and Movies too: You bought the movie or the game, but when a equal came out, you had to buy that to own it. You didn't get it for free just because you bought the first installment.

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Really ? My ssd’s and nvme write speeds went down alot (by half). My write speeds where better in Windows 10 and are much better in Pop! OS. In linux my write speeds are stable and in windows it goes up and down.

With the current steam deck i dont see any problems with keyboard/mouse or controller support for linux :innocent:. Thanks to steam, linux will get the love it deserves. I dont think windows will be pre installed on computers/laptops over 10+ years.

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its due to the constant churn in Linux. Go to any Linux news site, search for Linux, go to youtube, all you will see is talk of new distros, a new favorite/best, how what was good last week is suddenly trash, all kinds of updates etc.

And on most going to software updates gui app, or sudo apt update/pacman -Su/zypper dup etc will give you anywhere upto 100s of MB of updates. Unlike Windows Update there is no reboot, new Linux users are told its good to do this.

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After 8 years i installed W10 Pro. I was fear my old pc will cranky, unstable and freeze. Installing drivers,updated and software. Testing a games and working very good. What i can sayed. Something working better on Linux and the same on windows. The both have diffrent software and usable. Why I do that? @Aravisian sayed windows 7 people using in third world that i moved for better security. Linux distributions and windows are great. It depends how you want using your pc.

Windows has a rich story of backwards compatibility, and a tonne of technical debt -- the two go hand in hand. Given that, I am surprised at how good the general experience of using Windows is on a technical level.

In general terms, I find compatibility in Windows is good, driver support is good, performance is good, security is good, the core UX that's been there ever since Windows 95 is good. On all these fronts, I find Windows and a distro like Zorin to be at parity. Like OP said, I too feel like I am slipping into a pair of comfortable old slippers when I use Windows.

I thought the general UI polish in Windows 10 was shockingly awful (by that I mean, Windows 10 is incredibly ugly to look at), and Windows 11 made significant improvements on that front, though you still don't have to dig far before you start coming upon all the old janky and inconsistent UI elements brought forward through 20 years of continuous iteration. It's like a car that's been retrofitted over and over again, but every time a part gets replaced, a piece of the old one is left behind. I understand there are reasons for this - backwards compatibility and user complaints, chiefly.

By contrast, the GNOME desktop that underlies Zorin is heavily opinionated, and, for better and worse, the GNOME developers aren't shy about ripping out wholesale parts of their UI that they don't think are needed anymore. They choose their hill to die on and stay there, no matter how much flak they get. It's an attitude I can find as equally respectable as it is at times infuriating. The results might be controversial in many cases, but they are also polished and pristine, and that's something I really enjoy and appreciate every day using it.

Honestly, the only thing I find truly distasteful about Windows now is the advertising and intrusiveness of it. Gradually, with time, as Paul Thurrott recently pointed out again in this article (paywalled):

I also just hate that their servicing of the OS has gotten so overcomplicated now. Increasingly when I use Windows, I don't feel like I'm really in control of it anymore. You sign in one day and find they've moved something or stuck a new widget in the task bar, something that was there disappeared because they were A/B testing a feature, or they're shoving ads in my face for OneDrive (which I'm already using!).

Were it not for the above, as well as their overbearing insistence on telemetry data collection and real lack of care for privacy, I'd probably still be on Windows. Switching to Linux for me, for purposes of work, home office and music production, has not been easy, and it has also not been free. I have given up thousands of dollars' worth of accumulated software and plugins, in addition to hundreds of hours of my time, to get my workflow moved over, and while I am very happy with it now and don't have any intention of going back, I don't blame anyone else who wouldn't want to make that trade-off.

We are different animals. Booting up Windows fills me with Dread.

So very, very true...

It would only be respectable if they had a respectable reason for doing so. It would only be respectable if they respected the users.
They have neither of those things... And there is nothing to be respected about the Gnome Devs greedy and self-interested recalcitrance.

I have outlined in so many places across this forum where Gnome is about as unpolished as a D.E. can get. Where XFCE, LXDE / LXQT, Plasma, etc all remain consistent in widget spacing and sizing - Gnome Does Not.
Some apps use different notebook stacks than others. Some Have huge titlebars with borders, some have no borders and slim titlebars. Some applications doublestack the titlebar, even. Most don't. Other window elements intersect and overlap. It's the only D.E. that does this.
And Gnome-Boxes breaks the separator. You have to add two whole new elements to fix it - and it is the only Gnome App that does that. The rest don't. Completely inconsistent.
It's much harder to spot on a flat monochromatic theme... like Adwaita... But apply any GTK Theme that works beautifully on every other GTK based D.E. and it will be a Mess on Gnome. Themers must fix so much for Gnome to get our themes to kind of reasonably sort of work. I stopped theming on Gnome and will not restart it. I Only theme for all the other GTK based Desktops.

The only polish to Gnome is in the claims made by the Devs and Article writers that keep claiming it is polished ad infinitum. You cannot see it in Gnome, only in the claim.

This is why booting Windows fills me with dread, rather than being a comfortable old pair of slippers.

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I think this has more to do with the types of people linux users tend to be, they tend to be more technology centered, and look for customization and features, before going to linux full time, i was always using the latest windows running betas such as Longhorn, and always had to be on the cutting edge even at the cost of stability ~ as i have grown older that has changed some* But its also part of what drew me to Linux, was the freedom of choice and cutting edge, the ability to change the entire DE and have a whole new OS feel at the type of a command. I think with SteamOS and SteamDeck a large flux of linux uses will be incoming as most heavy gamers / nerds i know resisted linux only becasue they couldn't play the most popular and newest AAA titles due to anti-cheat services. thats changing,