When I start knowing Linux I failed to install it Multiple times in my desktop only knowing that my computer isn’t capable of running Linux. I stop then tried and fail again. 4 years have passed and I decided to fully devote myself on using open-source software, so yeah I tried CentOS… And it is very rock solid! Realizing that CENTOS Linux will be gone this year… So I hop and hop and hop that I master some of Linux Distros installation procedures like, dealing with permissions, LVM, Gdisk and Fdisk, all booting stages, systemd, systemv, Filesystem and File systems hierarchy, and many more (Anaconda is my favorite install interface) the only thing I failed to install is the ArchLinux which took me 1 week only to fail. So because of the bad experience in Installation and Configuration, user desktop experience isn’t much a problem to me. And I don’t have a problem with zorin, I use the lite release because I don’t like heavy software due of owning a pretty old laptop back in college.
I thought gnome was to much like windows. I love xfce4… best window manager/ desktop in my opinion, but I’m new to the Linux community. I’ve heard of other window managers, but am enjoying the simplicity and light xfce to much right now to explore other options. I can be rather picky about my customization. Currently I’m looking into embedding a few things or creating views with python so my desktop shows a little information. (I’m a fan of rainmeter on windows)
It is a shame that people expect easy and no learning curve. The point is to try and learn something new… you’re going to in life anyway so may as well learn what you want to and try something, i mean really try it, before giving up. Nothing worth doing is easy, it can seem that way though. Shouldn’t be bitter just because something requires the user to do something.
I have some bad news- your enjoyment is short lived.
XFCE 4.16 has taken a “gnome-clone” direction and also switched to CSD’s, as well. This is something I have argued (Heavily) with the developers of XFCE4. And they are irresolute.
It got more heated when they claimed that the decision to change XFCE as they had was voted upon by the XFCE team when their independent developers spoke up and said, “Uhh… you mean it was a vote only between you two because we got no vote, only orders.” Outed.
Mark gave a slew of misleading statements and in the end, it became clear that their motive was that they felt that they were understaffed and overworked, leading to the decision. It would have been fine if they said that openly; But misleading readers and declaring that We WANT them to do what they are doing was way out of line. Constantly changing their story as to how they knew the XFCE user crowd would react added much injury to insult. It resulted in me leaving and quitting the XFCE4 permanently, which stands to this day.
At that time, I did switch to another desktop that I find to be a bit heavier than XFCE, but as customizable and enjoyable and the dev team is much more supportive. I won’t name it- though it is no secret. You are enjoying your desktop experience right now and no need to blight that- When the time comes, you will know all about other D.E.'s.
Also have been looking at a project I gave only a working title to of XFEX, or XF EXtended; to fork from XFCE maintaining its original design in most ways. One focus has been to solve the inability to click and drag to resize window borders on a 1px width border in XFWM4, which I managed to clobber together a way of doing so by adding a window widget carrying margins- But only works on gtk-3.24 and up. For now.
But that has been somewhat back-burnered lately.
You code also? Is there anything you don’t do Aravisian? I’m in the process, as I’ve said, learning Java, python, c, Javascript, typescript and xml. Was trying to brush up on my perl and the finer details of c++…i can read the code just fine… solve the problems of tutorials without to much difficulty… but assembling an entire program, where to begin… that’s where I’m at a loss. Most likely because of lack of knowledge of all the apis available and what they do, how they interact.
If you’re ever in the mood to talk icon customization or development I’ve got ears.
Edit:
That sounds like a wonderful project you’re working on… it’s it on git?
I will likely take you up on that offer. I am also Learning Novice, not an Adept Expert. But motivated.
When I look at how horribly mangled themes I ported or made were in the beginning, for example, I am embarrassed I ever uploaded them. I have come a ways, but it is also clear I have far to go.
It is not, mostly because of what I just said above, not due to any secrecy. Also because my mind likes to say I would be better off leaving it in the hands of Real Experts, not Imposters like me.
Also because since MS bought Git, they now charge fees for carrying files of such sizes and it makes my middle fingers twitch.
I am pretty intolerant of Big Dogs growling at my work. I recently pulled everything off OpenDesktop as well (with lots of dramatic flair… They really ticked me off). Am in the process of making my own webpage and server to upload my work on to keep downloads free and fair.
I didn’t realize that ms was charging according to repository size… but i haven’t made any large contributions… mostly school related, functions, classes and such.
I don’t know why they’re so secretive, (developers), when they are supposedly so open. I find it difficult to discuss code with any seasoned developer i come across…i get the i remember when… but not a lot of direction. Read this and Google it are not answers… they’re evasions. Direct answers either take to long, no time for that, or i guess they feel it’s best i put it together on my own some how. The ones willing to talk are not all that far ahead of me.
I believe there are several innocent reasons and time is a big one. Even if a person has the time- they kind of don’t. Repeating yourself over and over just isn’t fun, when you get asked over and over for the same thing over and over. After a while, you may, even brusquely, refer the inquisitor to the reference material on a net search.
But there may be less innocent reasons, too. I see this one in many fields, from Science to Software to Web development; Humans like to leave some mystery to give an air of superiority. By not disclosing how easy something is, it makes them appear smarter.
I see this in the sciences a lot. It is true that there are moments when even I have said, “It’s hard to explain without a lot of math.” But usually, it can be explained decently without a lot of math.
When you get the site live let me know… I’d love to take a look, not that i could possibly contribute. Though I’ve beenreading a lot of uncle Bob, agile coding and refactoring
You might also Feedback the idea to the Zorin Team to create a Coding Discussion category right here on the forum to encourage active development and individual growth.
While I still enjoy XFCE if its available, for example, POP OS with XFCE, I will say that I am annoyed that XFCE handled things the way they did. They could have been more upfront and more transparent. When I first began learning about Linux, I learned that it was open source.
I further learned that Linux gives the user choice as well, and that Linux is for the user, not a companies bottom line. But seeing the path of several Linux developers now, going the way of Microsofts philosophy, I can’t but help to think, Linux is beginning to lose its way.
No, not Linux. Linux can’t lose its way. Again the only possible fault is in human beings. Linux isn’t perfect, and won’t get there without the dedication and conviction of people to do the right thing instead of the profitable thing. Don’t need to go the way of Sun Microsystems… now Oracle.
No matter how great the ideals something is founded on, it will always come down to Money.
And only intense pressure from the supporters can stave that off.
It is easy to increase the cash flow while changing things- merely by relying on common traits in human nature to convince the supporters that what you are doing is what they actually want.
Easier installations.
Less having to think about using software and more time thinking about their projects.
User friendliness.
They all sound great. And can easily be weaponized against us.
Google / Alphabet Inc. is an advertising company. They are about Marketing. Not about providing “free” software and search indexes.
Throw a dollar bill on the table and “Do no evil” gets bumped to the bottom of the Mission Statement. A little bit of evil is ok, if it pays well.
So they provide “free” things that help people out, provide easy references to information and convenience. And these free things gather data about you to sell. That money is used to fund more pojects to find something people want, and Exploit it.
I believe that it is a losing battle. We are outnumbered.
And as people get dissatisfied with MS exploitation, they still bring what is familiar; what they are used to, to Linux. They are used to Demanding things. They are used to convenience and ease - and on Linux, they Expect it for Free.
I believe that the only hope is for the Linux crowd to Combat this, not pander to it.
When I first migrated from Linux, not very long ago, I made the same complaints. The same demands.
Theming and Customization are the most important tools. They are the First thing a new user sees. And they serve as an ever present reminder of what FOSS and Individualism is all about. It is also the first target of those that desire conformity and uniformity to protect a Brand Image (Gnome) and market Linux as a valuable product.
When theming and Customization- Icon sets, Window themes, interfaces and are targeted and threatened; then it is Easy to see where the direction is going. And these have been threatened for years.
And they use Pop Articles to promote their wares- Google Search “Best Linux Themes” and you will be inundated with articles telling you what you want and how popular it is… Without any real grounds. All the same theme- slightly recolored.
One of the strongest points people talk about liking about Zorin OS is its very distinctive and different look. A great thing, as Zorin OS is promoted as aimed toward Windows Migrants. I think members of this forum have an important role in Helping Migrants with Information and support, not equating to the Gnome Philosophy Status Quo.
Helping newer users familiarize themselves with the Terminal as a powerful utility, to not feel intimidated by code and to recognize what is present and easy in Linux and how it benefits them are far more important then providing an answer they do not understand or attempting to Look Smart to them. No, we are All the Smart ones, here.
I’ll be excited when Zorin OS 16 comes out, and has nothing to do with Gnome anymore. But Zorin distro’s have been using Gnome too much IMO. Although yes its true, not every version of Zorin uses Gnome, that is correct. But just the fact that there has been a version that uses Gnome for each distro upgrade, thats the not cool part.
So, I think getting away from Gnome permanently, is going to be a huge step forward for Zorin OS. Also, Zorin OS incorporating XFCE customisability, would also be a huge step forward for their OS.
But until that happens, I’ll be upgrading to POP OS with XFCE flavor on top, because at least their OS is current and works with modern systems. I do find it weird we haven’t heard anything from the Zorin team for what feels like forever on OS 16 now.
I do respect the Zorin team dev’s for wanting to test the OS and not put out an OS that is totally filled with bugs. However, if they don’t get their next distro out very soon, their going to fall behind. The current version 15.3 is only really good for months more, just saying.
Keep in mind - Money. Canonical and Gnome are big and powerful and heavy influencers.
Just like the theming example above- Gnome is also strongly pushed with writers telling us all about how Great it is and disclosing none of its failings. They repeat “it’s great” over and over again. Eventually, that does its charm.
I think a choice in desktop environments is a great thing and Zorin OS is unusual in that it offers a Pre-Built Core and Lite version.
And we do have the ability to install other environments- I highly recommend enjoying exploring Enlightenment (top notch), Cinnamon or Mate, Xfce 4.12 or 4.14 and KDE.
It is true that installing other Environments that are not built in have a Very Slight Disadvantage - for example Cinnamon needing to constantly replace the window manager.
But it is very minor.
I hope zorin 16 has more choice of desktop environments directly without needing to install it first. and I hope the software store is improved again and more updated.
The Ubuntu software store is a bit closed off… Zorin Team has no real control over its development or the ins and outs of how it works.
I like your first suggestion, though. I bet Zorin Team would not LOL. That’s a lot more work.
Yeah, I noticed that there is a lot of out of date software in the software center, I knew that wasn’t Zorin’s fault though, as like you say, its from Ubuntu, so its most certainly their fault. Too many times I find myself adding PPA’s I find on sites, just so I can download newer versions of software, either that, or I’ll install via DEB file.
I figure the pandemic probably really slowed things down by quite a lot. However, as long as development teams are NOT sick with Covid, I’d rather they not use the pandemic as an excuse as to why they couldn’t put out software updates lol.
So far things seems to have slowed down a lot, so I guess some of us have to wait and see.
Except the increasing number of Snaps.
App updates via Software Updater also seem to be further behind the times than before. I was pleased to get a FF update yesterday though.
Because you mentioned that, I checked for the update. I managed to update Firefox. 
Thanks for your feedback.