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#11

Yes, I would agree there is a bit of a catch-22, but it makes no difference.
Denialism of the Solid and Sound Science that Climate Change is Very Real, in spite of us all directly observing the effects today, remains strong all around the world.
Humans generally are driven by self interest. For many, by the time Climate Change begins to show the worst, they know they will be long gone. So they do not care about future generations and want to live large now while they can.
We all rely on science and we accept it when we want to. In less than forty years, we want from flying in deathtraps with a Leather Helmet to grandmothers snoozing peacefully in a luxurious setting in passenger flight. We sent astronauts to the Moon. We enjoy the internet and computing and advancements in medical care.
But when science threatens a deeply held belief, money or even if a person wants to appear smarter than the average bear, there are some people that will get dismissive, deny and spin, distort, twist and even outright lie.
There are also many people for whom their own opinion is good enough and when it comes to the science, if they do not like what they hear, they will simply reject it and refuse to listen.

A catch-22 is made worse by a Positive Feedback Loop.

For example, as the climate warms and ice melts, more trapped carbon is released, causing more warming which causes more melting which causes more releasing…
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/11/12/120207/meta
https://bg.copernicus.org/articles/4/521/2007/

Climate change is nothing new. But Anthropogenic Climate Change is. Not only is it new, it is remarkably Fast.

The trouble is not in an isolated pocket boiling some water, briefly. But of a global average where power stations use economic but unsustainable fuels for energy generation:
main-qimg-762382535983b9569bfac3a670634d4d
Of course, in this, you can see a Strong Motive for rejection and denial.
These are precise scientific measurements of Real Matter.
CO2_emissions_vs_concentrations_1751-2019_620

The effects of the denialism are pronounced. Not only does it perpetuate the problem, it sows confusion and doubt among the populace that actually has direct influence on the direction this will go. By ensuring doubt among the people, those that benefit financially in the short term of Climate Change denial can stave off accountability, at least during their own lifetimes.

That denialism follows on the heels of such strong evidence…

https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate2896

No, the math is Not Lying. No, the climate scientists are not lying. No, it is not a Hoax nor is there a real motive for there to be.
Thousands of studies, known since the 1940’s, as our scientists have been warning us for decades and that ^ we are directly observing even now. YET, there are those who will cherrypick the numbers and do their utmost to deny the math, or twist it to a slightly more favorable view. To what cost? And what gain?
For a person that is not knowledgeable on climate science as it is not their field, they need only consider:
What if climate scientists are wrong but we take the steps to reduce carbon emissions as described? Then we will still have done well in lowering pollution that causes disease and is leading our current global extinction rate.
If we accept the Climate Change Deniers claims and it turns out that the scientists were right, and do nothing to halt the growing pollution and massive dumping of CO2 - We all suffer. All of us.
It’s really a no-brainer.

Currently, were I live, most of the ice is already melting away and infrastructure is rebounding. The boil-order was lifted this morning, though I have bottled many jugs in advance, I can stand to ignore the tap for another couple of weeks.

#12

I am bad. I should not be suggesting anyone buys or makes a motor generator set as they they burn fossil fuel. So also apply to my “Catch 22” scenario above.

India is/was prone to regular power outages and people took it into their own hands to get generator sets to mitigate that on their businesses and lives. The result was ugly, unsustainable and eventualy resulted in a ban on their use.

Southern states of USA, in terms of lattitude, must get a good amount of annual sunshine hours. So maybe Photovoltaic Solar Panels and Batteries would be a better and greener solution.

PS @Aravisian I am glad to hear things are getting back to normal. Whatever “normal” means these days.

#13

My vehicle is a diesel, but not electric. If it was electric, it may not help much. The electricity has to come from somewhere… and Power Stations carry a large burden on Climate Change and CO2 production. So does Concrete production, actually.
I recycle, heavily.

But let’s be brutally honest… We ALL, every one of us, suffer the Same Self Problem. I sit here enjoying technology, typing on this computer and this interwebs.
If we Truly cared about climate change, we would be getting horses and buggies.
We all know that this is true. We all know what it is that Really Motivates us.

I honestly fear that is what is coming, actually. I suspect steam, powered by Nuclear- will become the future, like it or not. And I, for one, support it.
But we love our modern conveniences Too Much. Tossing a steel Beans can into the recycle bin is a fine thing and all, yet I still go to the store where shelves are covered in Thousands of wasteful cans and packaging and my little efforts mean little when I know that 92% of those cans will end up in the landfill.

What we have truly done is painted ourselves into a corner. While this is not political, it is made out to be. And just like in politics, our developed human nature plays a very large role in how we confront issues.
Capitlaism, is evil. It’s what gave us poisoned food, exploitation of the working class, jobs being moved overseas and poverty- and let’s not forget the Radium Girls.
Socialism is evil. It gave us oppression, tyranny, corruption and greed as elites exploit the working class… Oh wait. There’s that human nature, again.
Of course, a person who has strong beliefs on one side will blame the other side. It does not matter which side you consider yourself aligned to, you end up with the same thing.
And whereever you go, most places, politics is banned from discussion. Even at the dinner table in many homes. Especially on forums on the web. Moderators dislike having to break up arguments and heated debates and it is … Easier… To ban it. Yet, now in the USA, it seems a nation heavily divided by groups that can no longer communicate, seek each other out for validation and confirmation and no one understands each other anymore, no one communicates and tests ideas for merit anymore… It is Our Fault. We wanted Easy and we created this division. We wanted peace for the moment and things have been less than peaceful now.
Climate Change is like that.
It is our fault, but we have done this to ourselves and cannot just Jump Back Out of the corner we painted ourselves into.
For some, they want peace without thinking long term. For others, they just want the Easy Approach and it really is a Lot Easier to think that everything is fine and there is no problem.
Conserving Energy is easier than burning it. We have developed and evolved to do so. For a million years of human history, we learned to take the easy appraoch as often as possible back when life lacked modern convenience and was Much Much Harder. We do not fit into the world we have created. We created it to be easy and now, easy is what people want, more than those of us willing to take the Hard Road.

We cannot fix what we have done to ourselves or the climate Quickly nor Easily. Not by tossing a can into the recycling once a week.
Not by surrounding ourselves only by people who agree with our views.
Not by hating or labelling those that disagree as an enemy.
Not by banning cars and power stations.
It is a dangerous balance, but we need to Slowly open the lines of communication. Improve education. Uplift others and mitigate what we can. We cannot force or order people to do what is right, because they will resist- It is our nature. We like our easy and convenient lifestyle so much better than the olden days.
What I learned the hardest in the US Army was that leadership is not about barking orders or telling people what to do. It is about inspiring others to want to follow your lead.

You are right, Zab, solar and batteries can be “greener” but they are not “green” either. And solar is great if you have the time, but a solar powered generator won’t do you much good at three am. There’s the Patriot Power Generator- which is NOT a generator but a portable battery; it does not perform as claimed, weighs a ton and charges by being plugged into the wall (With the 12 hour option of charging it outside if it is a bright sunny day using the included solar panels.) It costs more than a Small Used Car coming in at USD $2,500.00
How many people really are gonna jump on that opportunity?

When you look at How We Are… How if one political party supports an idea- then that idea becomes anethma to the opposing party, regardless of the Merit of the Idea, if gives me Little Hope for our future. The new normal? We have not changed in many thousands of years. Only our tech, did.
And what did our tech do?
It increased the human lifespan by decades. Helped treat and even cure hundreds of horrible diseases. It allowed chances to be given to those who would have never survived in the past that contributed in amazing ways to society- like Stephen Hawking. Our technology has shrunk our world and played a huge role in combatting xenophobia, racism and sexism. We now have the ability to touch knowledge with our fingertips; unlike the great Library of Alexandra, the internet has openly shared its bounty for all to read.
And our dark side knows no bounds- as some exploit that as a means to spread propaganda and misinformation, to inspire others to want to follow their lead… With deception, geared toward greed and self-driven gain. “Good,” “right” and "evil became subjective terms. In true fashion of Emergence, complexity increased. How do we know who to believe, anymore?
Ok, well… I know how. But who listens to me, anyway.

I believe that normal is going to get worse for a while.
People in the USA are startled. A bit… uncertain. But we are not Afraid. We should be, but are too proud to be. Until we are… Until we are Truly Afraid, I do not think anything is going to change.

#14

Aravisian, apologies for reviving a old thread, but I really felt the need to talk about this, and rather then making a whole new thread on it, I ran a search to find something remotely relevant to gas prices and re-discovered this thread.

Americans are now paying more for gas, then we have in the last 7-years. And to this time of year alone, we are paying $1.00 dollar more, then we were this time last year. They say its because oil companies refuse to provide enough quantity of barrel's to meet demand, and rather provide the previously agreed upon 400,000 barrels from pre-pandemic.

IDK, I honestly don't trust oil companies one bit. They are in it for profit pure and simple. If the demand is high, and the supply is low, they can dictate any prices they want, and get away with it. I bought about 22-gallons of gas today, this was the price for it.

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Its interesting, because during the first year of the pandemic, people weren't driving anymore, gas sales plummeted by an unprecedented amount. And gas costs were at the lowest prices that we hadn't seen in years!

The main reason I bought that much gas this time around, was for my generator to prepare, cause we get all these nasty storms that knock out our power, cause we have fragile power lines. Gas stations know this, and they bank on that.

Its sick

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#15

Necromancer Alert :skull:
But without a joke, we are also suffering a high energy prices here in Europe :frowning:
The thing is we cannot purchase gasoline in advance even we know the price hike is imminent.

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#16

At least we can now buy petrol (gas) here in UK again, without going on a tour of filling stations. Trying to find one open, with stock and without a long queue.
The self-inflicted fuel delivery crisis caused a big hike in petrol and diesel prices whilst demand outstripped supply, which has not yet recovered.
Owners of electic vehicles are smiling, but I guess not so where Trekker lives. Ironic to have to burn gas in a generator, to charge your electric vehicle.

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#17

Equally ironical is those bio-ethanol made from edible parts of maze to be added to the fuel. To grow those maze, we need fuel for agricultural machines. So much for the sustainable economy...

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#18

Worse than that. Chopping down rain forest to grow bio-ethanol crops.

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#19

Thread necromancy has never bothered me. Organizing into an existing thread makes more sense than starting a new one that ignores the helpful posts and existing thread.
Reviving a solved thread with a new problem is best avoided though.
If the solution in the solved thread did not work, different steps may be needed to solve it.

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#20

I am glad to hear that Aravisian appreciated my decision as being a good one. I try to do the right thing on this site, I am not always successful, but at least I try.

Zaba is right that this is a self inflicted wound caused by the oil companies not willing to straighten up and fly right. And causing high gas prices during a pandemic is rediculous.

FrenchPress, nobody in America can afford an electric car unless they are rich. Electric cars start at like 40,000 US dollars bare minimum for the cheapest of electric cars. Tesla's go for at least 60,000 US dollars and up.

Then of course you have your sporty racing electric cars that go for crazy prices, 80,000 UD dollars and up. The middle class has become the poor class, and the poor class, have become the rely on government support class or be homeless.

Electric cars, at least IMO, have never come down in price in all the years that they have been around. Maybe the best chance of getting an electric car here is to buy used. But thats a whole new adventure, cause you don't know what you are buying into.

Have the electric car batteries been abused? Have they been taken care of? How many miles of use on said batteries? Have they gone through freezes? Have they gone through multiple overheating without cooling?

Frankly, cars in general are expensive, but at least with a used car checked out by a mechanic, you can have a 90% certainty, that car is gonna be fine after a quick checkout by the mechanic unless he/she have found problems.

With an electric car, there are so many variables that are not so easily to find out, like the condition of the huge bank of batteries for example. But ya, you talk about your surprise that electric vehicles don't rain supreme in America?

Thats cause most of America is poor.

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#21

A lot of people misunderstand this. And while it is true that some in the USA are better off in some ways; it is not so prevalent as people around the world believe.
The USA is seen as the richest country. And while this statement is true it does not mean that the average US Citizen is rich, wealthy or even well off:

The cost of living in the USA Is high.
Costs have continued to rise for decades while wages stayed the same or even dropped.
The impression that Americans are rich is as strong as it is wrong.

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#22

This is 100% true, and this is what I have been trying to explain to others on the forum who are from other countries, like in the Europe zone for example. People find it hard to believe that things are so awful in America, when our nation is seen as the richest in the world.

Yeah sure the country might be rich, but none of us are. And you are also so right, that there are people who have 3-jobs, and still can't afford to pay their rent. The cost of living is far too high. And when it comes to building houses, they only want to build 400,000 dollars and up houses that nobody poor can afford.

Affordable housing? Not in America! Homeless people being taken care of? Not in America. Being able to afford to pay your rent? Not in America! In America, citizens are left behind, and its only getting worse as the years progress.

Social Security is one of America's government assistance programs. Would it surprise other successful countries in the world, that social security monthly benefit checks, have not gone up in 10-years to cover inflation and higher costs of living?

They are only just now starting to talk about how those on social security, will receive an increase in benefits, after 10-years of receiving no increases. It was on the news, only reason I know about that.

Something that I haven't talked about on this site cause I am ashamed about it, but I lost my mechanics business. The pandemic killed it, I couldn't afford to keep it open, the monthly bills were hemorrhaging me. And nobody was bringing in machines for me to service.

And since I am not a full dealership, that means I also don't sell equipment, so I had no income coming in. When the pandemic was in full swing, I couldn't get a job to pickup the slack of my missing income, as all shops were closed, much like mine, and some also went out of business, just like mine.

So I was forced to do the thing I didn't want to do, and get government assistance. So now I am just another statistic on the board, depended on the government, like so many other's. Anyways, it is what it is.

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#23

Well, you know how mother nature is on the war path with our species? We became next in line. This constant hard rained we been getting nonstop? Our neighborhood is now flooded.

Water is at least 50% up our lawn. Any further and it will reach our homes siding. And nope, we dont have a boat :sailboat:. They say the rain is supposed to let up on Tuesday and Wednesday.

I sure hope so cause it's looking bad for us now. Wish us luck here. Thanks guys.

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#24

@StarTreker I hope it stops raining for you and yor home stays dry. Do take some basic precautions whilst you can, like barrier of sandbags. Take care. Zab

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#25

WOW, between the rain and the wind, it was hard to get some sleep. But good news is, the rain had stopped by the time I got up. And hopefully it stays stopped, so that the water can reseed, and get drained away. It was getting scary there for awhile!

I come back to the forum and it looks like there has been a ton of posts since. WOW, its amazing how popular Zorin OS is lol.

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#26

Well, it's just a matter of opinion or insight.
At the first glance, it could also mean there might be - Trouble in Paradise.

#27

Well guys, I spoke too soon. Initially the water level stopped climbing and was on the beginning of reseeding. This is because the rain stopped. However, this was the calm before the storm as they say. We have a river that had crested later after I made the last post here.

A flood of new water came to our neighborhood. We are now surrounded in water that is several feet high. My garage is no doubt flooded, and I probably have stuff that is now ruined in there, like battery chargers and other items.

Who knows if my tractor, trailer, and mowers are all screwed up now. I also have a little electric scooter, its probably destroyed too. I also have a bicycle, where I am hoping, that its height, has kept the wheel bearings from being samerged.

I can't even open the freaking door, because the water pressure against the door is preventing me from opening it, so that means I can't even get out there. I am hoping the water hasn't gotten into my gas cans.

I recently bought 22-gallons of gas, cost me 102 dollars, I hope that hasn't gone to waste too. This has become a very sucky situation. The only good news is, the water level is bellow the floor of our home, so the home is safe, just the skirting is not.

But for now, we are water bound to our home. And its in the 30's-F outside, so too cold to be out there. But since the water level is above rubber boot height, the only way you'd be trucking out there, is in shorts, and water logged boots or shoes, and thats pointless to be doing.

The only sollace I can take from all this, is I still have a home, for now, and I am still alive. Stuff can be replaced, as much as awful as that is, stuff can be replaced, people can't. The flooding that India recently went through, well, were getting it on the other side of the world now.

We've had floods before throughout the years in this neighborhood even. But its never been this bad. This officially marks the worst flood that our neighborhood has ever got. I am going through a lot of emotions right now. I am not happy.

One of the neighbors houses, which is on a lower level of the neighborhood, appears to be flooded at floor level. I pray and hope for her sake, that its just bellow the carpeting and wood, and only the insulation is toast. :sob:

I took a few pics to show you all that I am not making this up, this is real.

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#28

I have no words for this.

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#29

They say that friends are the best form of medicine, when things are not going well. You guys are my friends, my family. Sometimes, words are not always needed. Just you guys being there for me, means a lot. :hugs:

QUICK UPDATE:

The water level has gone down a little bit, but were still quite flooded around here. I really don't expect things getting any better until Wednesday.

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#30

I ended up getting around to do an initial inspection in my garage, since the water reseeded enough. What a mess, gas cans, propane tank, boxes, all were floated and moved around. The battery charger I had on my tractor, destroyed, it will need to be replaced.

Thats not even the worst of it. I was keeping my two best mowers, my newer Honda string trimmer, my backpack leaf blower, as well as an electric scooter, in a heated room space.

It of course got flooded, lifted the scooter off the ground, and made it fall into my mowers. It broke the mirror off, submerged all the electronics and the motor. The battery charger for it as well was submerged, and that was arking and sparking before I pulled the power from the wall.

The scooter is destroyed. And while the battery technically is showing a bit of a charge, its much lower then what it was, and so clearly it was getting drained from somewhere. The battery was obviously submerged, but it does have shrink wrap seal around it. But still, can't trust it.

And what good is the battery without a working battery charger, and a working scooter for it? Its all gone, several thousands down the drain. So, the only battery charger I feel like replacing, is the one for 12v batteries, cause I am still going to need that.

Somehow my bicycle was still standing at the same exact spot it was. Clearly the flood did not pick it up and make it fall, but evidence shows the water level was up to the axle's at the very least. I hope my axle bearings are good, but who knows right.

Just like the tractor wheels, and the trailer wheels, submerged, show knows if those wheels are any good anymore. And engines that get water inside them, well, unlike electric scooters that can't be fixed once submerged under water, water can be gotten out of an engine.

Yes, it involves a lot of work. But you can clean out the fuel system, replace air filters as needed, drain cylinders, replace engine oil, it can be done. I will honestly consider it a miracle of the mowers actually start up as they are with not maintenance on them yet since the flood lol.

The tractor is higher up off the ground, water level looks like it was only reached the bottom of the engine, so it maybe not have been effected. Still assessing damage, but I couldn't take it anymore I had to go back in. Trash cans picked up floated all over the place. River logs and other garbage in the yard, what a mess.

I'm hoping that because I had many of my expensive cordless tools higher up on shelves, they will be fine. Like I said, I stopped before doing a complete inspection cause my mind was just utter depressed with it all. Carpeting water logged out there.

So whats the sollace with all this? Well, I still got my house, that didn't get flooded inside. I still have my life as well. Stuff can be replaced, people can't. And if you lose your house, your kind of screwed, so I should consider myself lucky, could have been worse.

Anyways, thats the update.

EDIT: I ordered a new battery charger, its also an upgrade, can charge 4 batteries at one time, and keep them maintained.

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