Suggestions for Zorin's Future (Opinion)

Chat about Zorin
#3

If zorin would add systemd-boot instead of Grub i might switch back to zorin. Systemd-boot decrease system boot time by 15 sec compared to grub.

I have to disagree on this, i have a acer predator g9-793 and pop os runs great on that. So far i did not encounter any issues with my machine running pop. I even installed it on a 10 year old hp laptop with ati and intel gpu and it worked great out of the box. The only thing that laptop needed was 1 driver for her card reader (to read sdxc)

Not everyone likes their desktop, but on the system76 site there are instructions posted how you can change it to xfce, cinnamon, kde or any other.

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#4

what's wrong with mentioning Polish?

polish
polish1024×682 126 KB

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#5

I think aravisian means it should be called polished :sweat_smile:

But yeah Polish people are nice too. My brother has a Polish girlfriend for 12 years now.

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#6

My point is that we deal with many from around the world and to be able to translate in more than one language can be tough at times ( I know growing up in Germany and coming to USA learning more than one ). And the point was made by OP and clerical errors happen on occasions. But it is understood what was trying to be made in "opinion".

#7

-sigh-

Polish...
Like "clean", "Modern", "Outdated"...
I believe these words should be used sparingly. In Human Language, no matter which one, Popular Buzzwords like to rise up, flare brightly, then die out.

I have often asked for clarity as to what, exactly, "polished" or "polish" means in regards to software. It is a very specific word. And using it in such a general sense is... problematic.

I clicked "like" on the O.P. to show over-all support for the ideas and suggestions. It's a good post.
But I posted a simple reminder...
Unless you really define "polished", then it is like "outdated" or "modern" being used to describe aesthetics: Used entirely and only for the purpose of influencing a reader to agree with your opinion without actual basis.

A good example of this is when a poster says, "I don't like XFCE. It looks outdated. I like KDE because it looks modern."
This is nonsense.
KDE or XFCE will look like whatever you want it to look like. So, that being the case, the only reason the author uses "outdated" or "Modern" is to suggest to the reader that if they disagree... Then they are Outdated and Need to Get With The Times.

It is a very clear logical fallacy.

It had nothing to do with Polish people. Which... are probably only referred to as Polish in English.

1 Like
#8

Come on your a smart individual and I have seen you decipher posts many times with less clarity. I simply used your own post to make a point.

It wasn't to offend you in my statement....more of a point I make. polish or polished had nothing to do with people. It's more of knowledge outside of book smarts.

1 Like
#9

If you want i can writing on scandinavian a language :slight_smile:

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#10

About a future Zorin important must be a balance. Working on any type a machine with drivers. Then more people can used that. Cosmetics with polishing what was before. Choice with installation what a user need. Reading this topic, you can create a vote what could be next version and if this possible. Hard work developers to buying next version Zorin.

#11

I used the word "polish" to represent the following meaning:
A 'polished' desktop experience is one that has a beautiful and consistent look and feel, is intuitive to use, has strong integration and great time-saving features, and in general feels like effort has been put into it to be a great product. The idea is that there are no 'rough edges' or 'spots' but that they have been 'polished' off. Any confusion with the nationality from Eastern Europe is purely accidental, and if you think either the meaning is obscured or the ambiguity is unhelpful, I will try to reword the post.

2 Likes
#12

Maybe Aravisian could have added a few of these :smiley: in his post.

#13

I doubt many people would be :grinning: if I outline how Polished Gnome is.

  • A myriad of gnome-extensions developed independently in order to restore functionality to the incomplete Gnome Desktop.
  • These same extensions tend to conflict each other and fail in unpredictable ways. Troubleshooting them is tedious. They generate no reports. You can only disable them one at a time and try to suss out which one failed - and good luck figuring out why it did.
  • Gnome-Software. The buggiest package manager ever seen.
  • Epiphany Browser: Has the setting options of an etch-a-sketch. The most amateur developed Browser in existence. It is secure and will not mine your data... and that is the only thing going in its favor.
  • Settings in counter-intuitive places or just missing altogether.
  • Gnome-shell; prone to crash and report a Microsoft style "Oops, there was a problem" without detailing the cause like the rest of Linux does. A panel that cannot be adjusted or configured by most users. No Right Click functionality unless employing an indie Extension to restore that.
  • GDM3; buggy, hard to configure.
  • Gnome Developers attitudes toward Gnome-Extensions: They hate them.
  • Gnome Developers attitudes toward User Control over their own desktop: They hate it and do what they can to eliminate it.

The vast majority of problems covered on this forum are due to Gnome problems. Yet, gnome users do not make the vast majority.
Points where I agree:

Gnome is heavily integrated.

Some are, yes.

Points I disagree:

Gnome is clunky and ugly and is utterly inconsistent in its look and feel. This is often asked about on the forum; Why do Gnome Apps sometimes have the notebook stack and some have the Window property? This causes some applications to have borders and some to have none. This causes some apps to have rounded borders and some to only have rounded top borders while the bottom borders are square.
Some gnome apps use the titlebar / headerbar and some use just the headerbar. This causes some applications headerbar to be windowed while others are stacked.
Some Gnome Apps employ headerbar .left and some do not. This is inconsistent. Some use header .right and others do not. This causes the headerbar to be broken into individual pieces that do not mesh well. header.right causes problems with the Titlebuttons.
Gnome-apps titlebar sizing varies heavily, from very thin to large - depending on whether it has titlebuttons or not and the size of the icons. Extremely inconsistent as the titlebar /headerbar class is not standardized as a Widget.

Gnome is nothing else but unpolished rough edges, poking out all over the place.
Gnome-software is the top problem app people seek help for on this forum. To the point that many regular Zorin users recommend switching to Synaptic.
Next is Gnome-Shell. I have struggled constantly to help users fix gnome-shell.
Next on the help list is the Gnome-Extension "unknown what is it doing and why is it doing it" thread. These threads almost never start out asking about Gnome-Extensions. They have no idea what went wrong.
Next is the inconsistency of appearance and themes. And for those who have not noticed inconsistency on appearance, it is because us themers fix that with a lot of hacks in gtk.css for you, Not Gnome.

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#14

Laughing my ar$$ off. I used to have one as a kid. You weren't even allowed to draw diagonal lines.

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#15

Yeah, that sounds like Gnome.

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#16

But it does look and feel outdated. The settings panel looks like it's come from Windows 3.1. But then again, I think we should go back to BBC Basic, as that was lovely and there was no need to change anything beyond making Basic run faster. :slight_smile:

#17

But more seriously:

In my view, distros such as Zorin have a choice:

  1. Continue to be a Ubuntu derivative with some tweaks, with Gnome and whatever tweaks Gnome allows.

  2. Or, strike out in a bold new direction and define what it is they want to be, with uncertain prospects of any long-term success.

Personally, I would always choose the latter because it is has heart and soul. But it's not up to me.

3 Likes
#18

I think it will boil down to available dev resources.

2us

The Zorin Bros have developed great skills, both technical and artistic, in getting the most out of the Ubuntu base. That applies to Gnome or XFCE desktop editions of ZorinOS.

Trouble is the Gnomettes seem intent on one-size-fits-all mentality regardless of acceptable functionality, so maybe Zorin Bros have a battle to keep pace with doors closing when it comes to Gnome edition.

I have got to say, my quick trial of Z16 Lite surprised me. For a lite OS, it appeared to me quite glossy and attractive out of the box. I agree the settings section came a bit of a shock compared to same in Core. Mainly because it was just different and I had to go hunting for "Sound" settings icon rather than a listed item.

As long as Zorin Bros keep publishing solid, reliable, intuititve and good performing OS, I will be a happy bunny. :rabbit:

1 Like
#19

Let me expand a bit:
While Pop!_OS may support non-System76 laptops very well, it is not their highest priority, nor are they guaranteed to continue supporting these others. More importantly however, at the moment, you can't easily customize the layout one closely representing Windows, macOS, or Chrome OS. I understand you can switch desktop environments, but in my opinion, the main point of having these layouts is so that new users can easily access the layout that they are most familiar with. It takes a certain level of expertise to switch DE's. I love Pop OS too and I think they are doing something awesome, but I think that their DE is not ideal for new users, and that Zorin can fill the niche of a gaming distro that makes the switch easy.

2 Likes
#20

The points you have made are quite valid. GNOME has a lot of flaws. I definitely agree that Gnome Web and Software are absolute garbage. You also mention extensions however. While I am vehemently against the pitiful lack of customization, I think saying that Gnome is inconsistent because of extensions is unfair. Gnome has many times affirmed that extensions are a hack. I am somewhat biased because I daily drive Gnome and I love it, but I would say that you are also somewhat biased, given that you use Cinammon as a daily driver. As far as the consistency of Gnome, in my personal experience it seemed subjectively consistent and beautiful, but I guess a lot of people notice things I don't and vice versa. All that said, each DE has its own set of issues. I could go on a long rant about the flaws of KDE, Cinammon, Xfce, or Budgie. I think as a human, I tend to more easily recognize the flaws of software I have chosen not to use than that which I have, but my point remains as to issues in each DE.

#21

Good. Because I did not ever say that nor did I even imply that. In fact, I was very Clear as to what I called Inconsistent.
Allow me to quote it since you appear to have missed it:

Nowhere in this does it mention gnome-extensions. It details, clearly, exactly where the inconsistencies are in appearance and in widget design.

#22

My bad. I mixed up the first part of your post,

with the second part. This is because to a certain extent I was treating the words 'polished' and 'consistent look and feel' as the same.
I did not miss that part of the post, but I didn't fully understand it. I'm not super familiar with all the jargon on window formatting, so a picture or a more in depth explanation might help me. All the same, within the confines of my limited understanding of that issue, I have not come into contact with it as far as I know.

I think clarity is, to a limited extent, in the eye of the beholder. I misunderstood you, so obviously it was not clear to me. That was mostly my fault, but I think saying something was very clear is relatively subjective.