The Direction of Gnome

Maybe you could switch to MX Linux or Peppermint ? @Aravisian

Checking out Drauger OS. There are plenty to choose from. Have always had a soft spot for MX Linux.

Shouldn't we ask Zorin Technologies if they support Gnome's direction?

That is a hard question.
I know that ZorinGroup sees Gnome as a viable and useful desktop environment.
From their perspective, using and offering Gnome is not the same thing as fully supporting the direction of Gnome.

As we examine Zorin OS 16, we see a lot of evidence that the Direction Gnome prefers is not the one ZorinGroup has taken.
The myriad of extensions and the list of improvements demonstrates that the ZorinGroup has their own mind about the topic. And I fail to express how impressed I am by the Zorin Core Desktop. They made Gnome usable for me - which is akin to making Mars habitable to me.
I prefer not to use it; but if I had to, I could manage. Whereas I cannot use Ubuntu or other distros with Gnome at all. I cannot stand it.

For me, the option to not use Gnome is very easy.
For them, it is not so easy.

Hypothetically, let's say that due to User Pressure and Gnome developments, the ZorinGroup must switch their Core D.E.
Their options are:

  • Budgie
  • A newly independent "Budgie" (Solus stated a desire to develop it and abandon Gnome entirely)
  • Plasma
  • A form of Unity
  • Something New

We don't have something new. Unity... not much of an option. This really comes down to an iteration of Budgie or Plasma.
With Plasma, ZorinGroup would have their work majorly cut out for them, learning an entire new D.E., how to configure and theme it and so on. Wow. That would be... a lot. I do not believe it is feasible. Amazing... But that may be a bit much. I could be wrong and maybe they are avid Plasma users in their own time and it would be simple for them. But Worst case is- that it is not simple.
And even if simple for ZG, it may not be so simple for their longtime Core users to adapt to.

Budgie would be similar to Gnome and a lot easier to deal with. Budgie has a lot of user support, too.
It would be easier for everyone to adapt to.
It would be a familiar environment.
And if there is a Solus developed New Budgie, it may well be viable.

I would not abandon helping the Forum even if I ultimately switch my Daily Driver to another Distro. After-all, several of us use Pop_OS or Devuan or Fedora.
I can keep Z17 on a Ventoy to examine tricky issues if needed as I exploit this forum to enhance my own learning.

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I have tried several distros and DEs, but current Zorin Core is the best distro for me. Therefore, I am concerned about the future of Zorin OS. If time is needed for development, I would support the passive option of maintaining the status quo for the time being. I just want to know what kind of outlook they have.

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I am quite vocal and outspoken.
If I was Ocean, the ZorinGroup would be Desert.

The net-publicly quiet types, they still can talk quite a bit if you catch them in the right moment. Even then, you would be hard pressed to tease much out of them that reveals their personal views on anything.

Even so, as vocal as some of us are about Gnome, Wayland, systemD, Flatpak, Snap, etc... You will never find any instance of them showing retaliation, favoritism, etc.
toward any member and their views.
Respectable, if not mysterious. They do not appear to wear hats that are a sort of... red color.

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It is reliable. :smirk:

Gnone is only the dominant DE due RH corporate money and influence. In almost every way - technical merit, usability, features, performance, open source spirit, KDE is far superior. Qt is infinitely better than Gtk.

And they do it with volunteers, with a budget thats maybe 1/50th?

KDE has maybe 10x the features, actual innovation like KDE Connect, many best in class apps, and runs with same footprint as XFCE - its a minor miracle. I also want to mention Zorin Core seems to use less resources than a default Gnome install, no idea how.

Gnome customers aren't users, they are the Gnome devs and their corporate masters, and they're very clear on this.
Ignoring user feedback is a principle.
Arrogance is a virtue.
Breaking things is a feature.
Removing features is an accomplishment.

All of it is covered by the magic word - polish.

There's a reason major distros like Ubuntu. Mint, Pop and many others have chosen/been forced to move away from Gnome. There's only so much you can torture your users while bending over backward to the arrogant devs.

And due to their money and power Gnome is able to influence projects like Wayland into being Gnome centric rather than agnostic.

Obviously I am perfectly neutral on this topic and do not hold any strong opinions at all.

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I noticed this to the point that I actually straight up asked Artyom Zorin about it.

Both Zorin Core and Zorin Lite both behave differently than their counterparts.
Even lighter Distros than Zorin Lite actually use more CPU resources... The only one that hadn't in any of my testing was Antix.
But Antix is a featherweight distro.
Zorin OS can spike CPU usage, but then it drops it back down, even where other distros consistently stay up.

I do not blame ZorinGroup for not really answering the question. It is what sets Zorin Apart: Performance.

I could not agree more.
It makes the hairs stand on the back of my neck when I read that Gnome is "polished."
I mostly see it in tech articles. And I see it on Reddit- where users repeat what they were told to say.
Yet, Gnome is very unpolished. Widgets borders intersect or overlap. Widgets lack consistent sizing.
Gnome hides this by locking in Flat monochromatic themes. It is harder to notice when all the widgets are the same flat color. But add any gradient and it becomes very obvious.
But even on a flat monochromatic theme, it is visible. Just on Gnome Developed Apps alone: Note how often the titlebars are different heights on different apps, with notebook or stack in use. Some titlebars use a border, some do not.
Note how often the titlebar does not extend to the left and right all the way, or doubles up as more than one titlebar on some apps, like Gnome-Boxes.
Gnomes edges are rough. Yet, they keep repeating it..
"Polished." "Polished." "Polished." Eventually... we are supposed to Just Believe It.
Gnome, if you got something wrong or the app code needs tweaking... it's fine. But don't psychomanipulate me with buzzwords.

There is a saying, "better to stay silent and have people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and confirm it."
Who didn't stay silent making that one up?
It is the voice willing to be heard that calls for justice.

another thing that bugs me - it is now expected that to make Gnome usable you have to install extensions. Note that Gnome by itself will not come with extension support or store, so first you must install the browser support or extension manager.

Then you browse 100s of user created and unmoderated extensions, which are just snippets of JS code - i.e. open, unsecure, slow, vs compiled code - which can and will break when you run updates, there is a lot of overlap and redundancy, and you are the mercy of some user who may or may not have any interest.

And this isn't for fancy stuff its basics like icons on desktop (note that I don't mean Zorin) or navigation via menus or other essentials.

There is no standard set of curated ones. A new user is at the mercy of some random youtuber, which is just about the worst way.

I think a KDE based Zorin would be great but of course it means fragmentation and it does have a lot more settings/options.

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These are actually often the same reasons given by the Gnome Devs for calling extensions "hacks" and a "niche thing".

they are not wrong.

Their ideal vision for Gnome is no themes, no extensions, one way to do things, no settings/customization, and treating every pc like a tablet and every user like a dumb newbie.

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What bothers me is the lack of multilingual support in many DEs: Japanese language used in Zorin OS is easier to understand than Windows, but that advantage is lost when switching to other DEs. I can understand some English, but problems with Japanese input are critical.

They are not the Mario Bros. so the red hats would not suit them. :upside_down_face: I am not pessimistic enough to worry about such a situation. I never call something that exists for the benefit of big business as FOSS. They are neither free nor open.

Gnome Rules!!11 to all you nay-sayers! There I said it. Mission complete.

/untracking thread

:grin:

meme

It is important to note that the thread is not about whether the Gnome Desktop is an issue- but the Direction Of Gnome Development.

Gnome is like this movie.

I wondering if @Aravisian could our hero like him. Clear that all mess.

Nope.
I am a dissenting vote, nothing more.