A Zorin and Pop_OS question

Hi,

Not here to cause any arguments but just interested in getting more information as I was considering three distributions to eventually fully switch from Windows.

  1. KDE NEON
  2. Zorin Ultimate
  3. POP_OS

Now I've dropped KDE NEON from my list recently not because it isn't good but because I think GNOME has better mobile device support. So my two choices now are between Zorin OS and POP OS.

Been trying the beta of Zorin OS 16 and so far it has been a very good experience running it as a VM for the moment. POP_OS seems also a good alternative. From what I can see, and correct me if I am wrong, the only big difference here appears to be that System 76 offers a version of POP OS that includes Nvidias drivers.

But I presume that even if I would install ZORIN or POP OS (non nvidia version) is just a matter of installing the drivers and that is it unless they have done something special which I doubt or am I wrong to assume that?

Now I'm not saying I'm going NVIDIA, I'm strongly considering AMD for the future. But would just like to get your thoughts on this.

And no, I'm not a total Linux newbie, running some Debian servers right now but it would be my first time switching to Linux as my main desktop. I may still use Windows in a secondary boot from time to time for gaming until (fingers crossed) one day more developers wake up and start developing triple AAA games natively for Linux.

Thanks,
Patrick Tessier

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Both of my desktops have NVidia GPU. I am planning to switch to AMD in the next system upgrade.

If you are serious gamer, POP OS is worth for consideration. I hope someone in this forum can give you more information. I myself is not a gamer and the only reason I have NVidia GPU is out of necessity for running macOS.

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Hello:
I don't know Pop_Os mostly.
As for the Nvidia drivers, you can also install them in Zorin Os, it gives you the option at the beginning or, if you prefer, you can install them later. However, you should keep in mind that the support Nvidia gives to Gnu Linux is quite poor. It seems to me that a better alternative is AMD.
Regarding games, the panorama has changed in recent years, thanks to various alternatives, such as Steam.
In the near future, I see it difficult for game developers to massively focus on creating versions for Gnu Linux. There are several reasons for this, mainly the low market share that distributions have in the desktop world (about 1%), compared to Windows or Mac.
Regards

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Thanks to both of you for your comments.

You are right @alexandros that Linux adoption is low. And I know many have been waiting for years for a shift from Windows to Linux to happen in mass. Who knows, maybe many of the people left behind with Windows 11 will finally give Linux a serious consideration which would change everything. I guess we will have to wait and see.

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I just checked with GParted.
It shows my EFI partition is 521.00 MiB in size (Zorin 16 beta).
Am I missing out something in here?

I thought all Ubuntu/Debian based Linux OSs reserve this size for EFI partition.

Zorin can be installed in Legacy, without the UEFI partition.
Pop_OS! is only available for UEFI machines.
One of the strong points of Zorin OS is that it can be installed on older machines, breathing new life into what may have gone to the recycler.

No, I do not have any other OS on this system. It was a clean installation.

And I am not a such advanced user to specifies the partition size. I usually let the installer to partition the disk during the installation and I've never seen the size other than 521.00 MiB (at least in Ubuntu/Debian based OSs).

Firstly, thanks @337harvey for your comments and of course everyone else.

From my experience, any OS I have installed using UEFI requires 500 mb as far as I know. That doesn't bother me much though. At the moment I'm debating if should install ZORIN with Windows 10 as a dual boot option or just remove Windows 10 from my laptop and install it there. My move to Linux will have to be a transition. I have found most of the software I need to replace all the ones I have on Windows which is a good first step.

Gaming will be a bit harder to do. I'm a flight and space sim fan and a big problem is finding drivers for the joystick I use, VKB. That is the part that has always been a pain and has nothing to do with Linux not being able to do it but lack of support from the developers. I can't blame them for say, they follow the money.

I'm really hoping (and I know this will sound familiar) that Windows 11 is going to motivate people to move away. The reason why I think now is different from before compared to the Vista era well, Linux came a really long way. Progress has been ENORMOUS in terms of applications, productivity (office apps), the desktop with GNOME and KDE, we are looking at an ecosystem that can really be used by someone who only does emails, productivity stuff, web without the need for Windows and feel right at home.

I've stuck with Windows because I thought Microsoft had changed since Satya and while that may be true to some extent, they are not back with their same old tactics and many will be caught in the web of this new Microsoft vs Google battle that is about to be reignited. Suffice to say, I had enough. Sure, there are Microsoft techs I do like, I enjoy Visual Studio and Visual Studio Code, I love C# and the .NET CORE Framework, but all those are not open source and can fully be used under Linux.

It is really time for Microsoft to stop pushing their own OS. A waste of time and effort. I hope those who will be faced with upgrade issues because they can't go 64 bits will realize they do have other options out there. What an incredible waste of material.

One thing is clear for me since I started to install my own server systems, stuff like OPNSense for my network management, using Debian for servers, Nethserver for DNS redundancy, etc, why would I waste so much money on Windows Servers when I can get things done on Linux just as easily if not easier in many cases? I used to think Linux was intimidating but that is just because I didn't sit down to really take a look at it and really taking the time. And it is not true that the Linux community is arrogant. I mean some are not helpful but the same is true for many other communities. There are many people out there willing to help.

I feel I am going way off topic here but just wanted to voice this out hopefully helping some people or someone who is open to something new and look for alternatives to consider their / is options. In my view and from my perhaps small but growing experience, there is NOTHING we can't achieve with Linux and we would all benefit from a common base.

That being said, I did try POP_OS yesterday and while it is fine, it is really using the native GNOME approach which I do not like as much as the flexible UI choices ZORIN offers. Another point for me is, POP_OS is developed by a company while ZORIN is community based. Now why is that important for me? A company can disappear while a community working on stuff there will always be someone around to pick it up. I realize this arguable but I would bet any day on OPEN SOURCE stuff over proprietary or company based stuff if there is a choice out there. If there is one thing OPEN SOURCE has shown is just how we can get things done when we unite out best talents without all the BS of the proprietary stuff.

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That statement is not true. Zorin is developed by the two Zorin brothers. Whilst not a big company, it is still a business, albeit a small family business.

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I'll have to be careful with this. I started to use EFI not long ago and had some bad experience trying to install dual boot OSes in the past. When I would install Windows 10 and then Linux and would lose Windows 10. But I think that was because I didn't pay attention to where the EFI partition was installed and scrapped the disk during a Linux install. So was my fault.

My other concern is, what if I want to remove Windows one day, how to many an EFI partition that I do not yet know so I'll have to do some research on that.

Thanks for the correction.

I guess my statement should have been that it is funded completely by the community.

@tomscharbach Yeah I had issues as well with dual booting. The problem if I install Windows AFTER is that then Windows bootloader will take over and you have to reinstall grub after I think, at least I remember doing that a very long time ago when not using EFI but Legacy.

I'll probably end up install Linux on my laptop first. I can't really scrap my current setup since I am working from home and using my main machine for all backend development. So my hands are tied. The willingness is there though. All I know is Windows 11 is not going to get installed on this machine. As I reach 2025 I guess I'll have decisions to make when Windows 10 becomes officially unsupported.

It does sound like I am taking two steps back but I'm just being careful. But in my mind there is no doubt that LINUX is the best option if I was not stuck my gaming and work.

If this info interest you, I am currently running Windows 11 on three unsupported systems. All you need is to modify the installer and a Windows registry thereafter.
It is also possible to install unmodified Windows 11 as VM on the unsupported host including Zorin OS.

Thanks for confirming this. It is exactly my observation.

This could be useful should I need it, if you can share the info. But I doubt I will go there until Windows 10 is phased out.

@tomscharbach

Exactly my feeling. The other things I don't like about Windows 11 is all that TPM stuff and this 64 bits requirement. They are just forcing people to get a new machine which is so wasteful. Then there is this come back of BING everywhere, not that Google is any better but I don't want to be forced to go somewhere I want to make my own choices. There is the integration of Microsoft TEAMS in the OS now, so similar to what they tried to do with Internet Explorer back in the days. To a certain degree the UI would not bother me that much but it is all the other parts.

When I started to see Microsoft integrating Linux into its OS a few years ago I thought that maybe they would make a transition to Linux eventually. There was a lot of speculation about that. It may still happen one day but I'm not holding my breath. Besides, why would I go for a "LINDOWS" if I have the choice of something better. Anyways, to me, Windows is just old technology that has been repainted many times with a lot of the same stuff underneath, it is obsolete and high unsecure. It is just a bad OS used as a playground do experiments with where the lab rats are the people (hence Windows 11).

I am also planning to hang on to Windows 10 till very the end. But I do not want to panic at the last moment either. Those installation of Windows 11 is a kind of insurance for my future computer needs.

[How to bypass the Windows 11 TPM 2.0 requirement]

Option 1 for in-place update

  1. Copy and paste the following in text editor and save it as win11bypass.reg

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup\LabConfig]
"BypassTPMCheck"=dword:00000001
"BypassSecureBootCheck"=dword:00000001

Double click win11bypass.reg to add entry to the registry

  1. Download the latest Windows installer:
  1. Unzip and place aria2.exe (https://aria2.github.io/) in the same folder to create installer ISO file

  2. Mount installer ISO file, copy its content

  3. Replace appraiser.dll (not appraiserres.dll, the instruction in the page below has a mistake) in the sources folder

  1. For in-place update, double click install.exe

Option 2 for fresh install

  1. Create ISO file from modded installer files using K3B

  2. Use Rufus to create installer USB

  3. Follow instruction below:
    https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/microsoft/how-to-bypass-the-windows-11-tpm-20-requirement/

After the error message press Shift+F10 on your keyboard at the same time to launch a command prompt.
At this command prompt, type regedit and press enter to launch the Windows Registry Editor.

When the Registry Editor opens, navigate to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\Setup, right-click on the Setup key and select New > Key.

When prompted to name the key, enter LabConfig and press enter.

Now right-click on the LabConfig key and select New > DWORD (32-bit) value and create a value named BypassTPMCheck,
and set its data to 1.
Now create the BypassRAMCheck and BypassSecureBootCheck values and set their data to 1 as well.

Once you configure those three values under the LabConfig key,
close the Registry Editor, and then type exit in the Command Prompt followed by enter to close the window.
You will now be back at the message stating that the PC can't run Windows 11.
Click on the back button in the Windows Setup dialog.

Start over from selection of Windows edition.

Thanks for the procedure.

But I have to tell you, I hate having to do all these kinds of tricks, eventually you run into problems and you know Microsoft will make our lives hells, hence why I'll hold on to Windows 10 until 2025 and hopefully by then maybe, just MAYBE, I can say goodbye to the Windows world forever? FINGERS CROSSED :slight_smile:

Thanks again!

You are touching so many good points here.... When it gets this complicated to use an OS that is insecure and they need to use hardware to help make it more secure, there is something very wrong there. Windows has so many flaws, so many security issues and they need this kind of security to help make it better.

Helping to a transition to Linux is a good idea. And also, bring more developers who usually just code for Windows and have them code stuff under Linux. I always said it, if more games would be available under Linux, you would see more and more people switch over.

That being said, let us not waste energy on Windows but on how we can help Linux continue to move forward!

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It is interesting to see the diversity in our perception. I just love to research and try out such tricks. For me, it is a trivial effort compared with running OSX on unsupported PCs. I suppose it is boiled down how much time one would like to dedicate tinkering around computers - which I love with passion :nerd_face:

As for Microsoft, my freeing is quite neutral.
I wish I could do without their products but my work requires it. If I cannot do without, it is better to accept rather than hate every moment of using it. Everyone is entitled to think otherwise but I myself prefer not to place myself in such a negative mind set.

Actually I am hoping that I would be retired by then :wink:

But really, if you still need Windows to get the job done, there is always an option of virtual machines. In fact, that has been the only way I run Windows for my work for over 6 years. I keep one bare-metal installation for firmware update for peripherals which quite often comes in Windows only format.

There is one interesting discovery from my installation endeavourer. If Windows 11 is installed as VM, absolutely no modification is required for the installer. It can be installed and run on any Linux host with an unsupported system.