About ZorinOS Organization (video feedback)

Chat about Zorin
21

This isn't wrong. I mean, I even bought a Zorin t-shirt and a Zorin PC case sticker. Also, aside from this forum, there's "real life" to consider, and so I don't devote my time and life 24/7 to grievances associated with Zorin. I have moved on, but there's a bit of an intellectual curiosity that's kept me lingering here about how it is that Zorin still enjoys a certain level of support much like how Microsoft (or whatever) still enjoys support among so many despite their screw-ups.

I honestly hope the Zorin brothers pivot sooner than later, and work towards reclaiming goodwill among their core user base, but I haven't seen much concrete evidence of that (at least not consistently). Zorin Grid still isn't a deliverable (despite years and years of it being promised as coming "soon"). The upgrader for Zorin OS 18 is still in "beta." Neither Artyom or Kyrill have responded to community feedback about switching to Debian. And so on and on.

Anyway ... yeah. Life goes on.

1 Like
22

Clearly, the 'Pro' label I suspect, was to attract Windows Pro users. Originally it was coined Zorin Ultimate.
Personally I think Zorin has in the past done an excellent job on all the releases they made. Zorin Core has always been Core, and Lite has always been Lite.

However, the problem of the world we live in today is the constant clamour to have the newest thing on the block, regardless of price to themselves, or the cost to the Earth and the slave workforce that extract rare earth minerals at cost to their health and potential fatal accidents.

Because of these forces, including blind assumptions that new is better, are elements out of Zorin's (and ours) control: Ubuntu (snapd), Gnome and its never ending push to be like Microsoft, oblivious to users rights to fundamental computer freedom that Richard Stallman promulgated years ago, who has always stated "I don't understand what the term 'Open Source' really means".

KDE Plasma is another DE having issues with Pling (and I suspect Gnome to some extent with gnomelook.org, but if not, then perhaps there is some play afoot to tarnish Plasma) with Global Themes. Having run newer editions of Plasma none of the Global themes have installed, stating a knsrc wallpaper dependency missing. Plasma 5.27 has been the most stable version released, so why is KDE not paying heed to the old adage "Don't fix what ain't broke"?

Then we have Wayland and even xfce is experimenting with it. Basically the current GNU/Linux vista looks bleak, like it is pointing an M1 Rifle at its big toe, killing itself off by adopting a compositor being worked on by Microsoft, Intel and Collabora. What this means is in the end you will be forced back on to Windows and only be able to communicate thoughts that reflect the ones Big Brother will enforce on you and you will be imprisoned for even thinking about making freedom a reality. The banks won't stand for it.

Almost forgot, I think Zorin Grid is on the back back burner, because on making enquiries via my business email I was redirected to their help page on how to migrate to Zorin from Windows.

1 Like
23

Well,
The YouTuber YouTux has 24k followers, the video above was seen by 10k in just 3 days. The one I posted 27k views in about 2 months being online. Is he a big fish, I doubt so. There are other ones with more followers who praised Zorin as being good.

Is YouTux right with his accusations? I am not in the position to judge this, being ignorant on the community for many years and just less than a year ago part of it again.
Is he making some valid points? In my opinion, it depends, maybe ... hard to say.
A short search gave me some information about the ZorinGroup. Just not in one place, not on the ZorinOS homepage, a category like About Us might give Zorin a personal touch, a character.
PR does not seem to be their hobby, rather programming. It is a small company of 3-8 persons. I have no idea how the financial situation is, maybe it would be good to hire a PR agent. Taking care of webpage, blog, this forum, social media, the FAQ pages, documentation etc. and other administrative tasks. But such a persons wants to have a decent salary too. Say 2500 €/month, equals 30K per year 60K including taxes. That would be 1200 Zorin Pro purchases. Are you getting my point. Life is not free. People have to pay their rent and buy food to survive.

In this interview from 2023 Artyom Zorin shares a few insights about the project. I like to quote the part on their view about the Zorin Pro version. One that is often criticised by many.

Some people do not like that Zorin OS Ultimate is paid. How do you justify putting a price tag on Linux?

The spirit of Free Software is to create technology that is free as in freedom, not “free beer”. This allows developers to charge for their work to make it sustainable. The GNU GPL license actually highlights the fact that Free Software can be paid-for.

Even though many Linux-based projects are available for free, a lot of the development work for Linux is actually done by salaried engineers in large companies like Intel, IBM, and (surprisingly) even Microsoft. These companies contribute these resources to Linux because their servers and products run on it, and by developing Linux they’re also improving how their businesses run to positively impact their bottom lines. This commercial funding is why we see such a vibrant Open Source community around Linux on servers and IoT.

However, the Linux desktop hasn’t seen that level of success yet, as there still hasn’t been a strong commercial push into it. When Canonical axed the Unity and Convergence projects earlier this year, they noted that they weren’t able to justify funding the development of these projects as they weren’t able to produce financial returns to be able to pay for themselves. We believe the lack of commercial focus could risk the stagnation of the development of desktop Linux (case in point above) which would be sad to see. By paying for a Linux desktop distribution, you’re also directly funding the engineers who are developing and making Linux even better on the desktop. In the case of Zorin OS Ultimate, you’re also getting a huge library of additional software and technical support as part of the package, so it’s a win-win for everyone.

I hope they will never ever go for a monthly subscription model, as many smartphone app developers do. I have no problem of buying a version of an OS (as I did for Windows and Office and others) I recently bought a new laptop at Framework. If one orders it with Windows Home they charge you 150 € extra, 260 € for Pro version. I would and will pay for a Linux OS, maybe also a similar price as for MS.

1 Like
24

Pling has shut down. It is the end of an era - where LibAdwaita is successfully killing off user customizing and accessibility in favor of Gnome's self promoted HIG.
They do not want end users controlling system appearances. They seized control.
They won.

NOTE: This part is quoting Artyom Zorin from an interview;

I want to add to this: If you are not paying, you are the product, not the customer.
It means you are not in control - the one paying is.

On GnuLinux, this is stark. And Swarfendor's post touches on the bitter taste of this.

Artyom Zorin really nailed it with that answer and it was calm and controlled, but accurate.

This is where human beings apply their focus on what they think is most important, not the entire picture.
Zorin OS would benefit from a roadmap, clear communication and transparency.
That is logical and well reasoned.

YouTux detracts from his own logical presentation by also waxing illogically that "Pro" a "Scam", since it is not. It is not logically sound and humans will focus on that, instead of the logical arguments made in the other video.

This is why mitigating our biases must be a constant daily effort.

2 Likes
25

I've just posted this on KDE forums:

This has crushed my business model!:

So it looks like the only distributions I will be offering now are LMDE 7 (Cinnamon) and Q4OS (which has it's own Global Themes that get installed when you add 'Look Switcher' - not from Pling thank goodness!).

So no more MX-Linux (Plasma) or PCLOS Debian Plasma - looks like I would need to swap Plasma for the Cinnamon release of PCLOS Debian!

26

HĂ€? It is still there:

And the Sites for Gnome, KDE and others, too:

1 Like
27

I am going by this:

It has shut down artist payment, meaning a severe reduction in theme contributions.
It does state:
"This change affects only the payout system. Pling will continue to operate and develop the platform and its services as a means to distribute libre solutions directly to the users of KDE and other Linux software, ensuring that users, creators, and supporters have a reliable place to share, discover, and collaborate."

To me, that reads as Damage Control.
But you are right and @swarfendor437 questioned my statement too - I had misunderstood that it was shutting down payments to theme creators - not the entire site.

Yet.

28

Ah, okay. Then it was a Misunderstanding.

1 Like
29

This is my main concern with this post, really. I could careless about ZorinOS wanting to make money to be sustainable because it's a reasonable request.

I believe that if a part of the audience is going to be paying, they should have some expectations for what they are paying for.

Wither or not if he's right, he does bring up points that were meant to be questioned.

With that being said, it seems that he's more of an idealist than someone who is willing to be "give and take" type of creator.

Update: BTW, I don't think this line of thinking applies to Linux/GNU since it is open-source.

They should have a way to make it sustainable, but not at the cost of doing it monthly. The major release versions payments by itself may not be enough, but Linux Mint managed to get by with monthly contributions. So, it's not impossible to get some sorta revenue. It's just a matter of being realistic with the approach. If they want that, it's only fair to see how the money is being used.

30

Pika OS
2 FTE devs
3 contributors
+
2 advisors

Linux Mint
10 FTE devs

  • unkown no# of contributors

Debian
1000~ contributor/community devs

Fedora
estimated hundreds,
mix of FTE + contributors

Solus
16 volenteers

  • community of package maintainers for the repos

Manjaro
2 developers

CachyOS
10 developers
3 contributors

elementary os
1 developer

Linux lite
1 developer
~5 contributors

Nobara
1 confirmed developer (GE)

  • unkown no# of contributors and maintainers

arch linux
22 volunteer developers

Zorin OS
1-2 paid FTE developers

3 Likes
31

I thought it would be worth while to pull some estimates of varying projects in the Linux space in terms of development because of the "hit by a bus theory"

It is interesting to note ZorinOS/Manjaro/ElementaryOS/Nobara have a similar number of developers.

speaking for my time also helping maintain packages within the Solus Repo, that is the a massive ammount of work for just 1 or 2 people 5 days a week.

The amount of not tedious things you can get done is likely pretty small hence the long time-frame between Zorin OS 18 and Zorin OS 18 lite/no visible progress on grid/upgrader.

3 Likes
32

YouTux hmm, he is a fraudster. He uses a fake AI voice on his videos and hides his face with a dodgy style balaclava whilst vaping on live stream. He has zero credibility ...

image
image1430×703 161 KB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUby-uuZ4I

33

This doesn't dismiss the concerns I addressed.

Because the messenger is messy doesn't mean the questions he provoked disappeared.

2 Likes
34

The interesting dichotomy here, of Privacy being negated as a proof of trust.

We cannot have our cake and eat it, too. I have been clear where I disagree with the Merit of YouTux's claims.
And where I think his claims have agreeable merit.
That is the way for critical thinking. Not attacking the character of the person; and certainly not by balancing between valuing privacy and devaluing it when convenient.

2 Likes
35

Hell Yeah Yes GIF

1 Like
36

All very interesting but to me totally inconsequential and irrelevant. I have only been into Linux for a couple of years. I did a lot of distro shopping. I only looked for one thing in all those distros. Does this distro do what I want and need it to do. I lost count of how many distros I looked at before settling on Zorin. I settled on Zorin because it does what I need and want it to do It works for me. I fully realize it may not work for everybody. That is the beauty of Linux, yoo can shop around and find what works for you. The budget, team organization, team transparency, structural organization and everything else is. secondary to the end product, I respect Artyom an Kyrill for what they have created. I use Zorin 18 Professional not because I need the bells and whistles it contains but because I know it takes money to do what they do. I look at that purchase as a donation and I fully intend to make more donations simply because I like the end product and want to support its developers and the product development. How this gets done is not important to me as long as it gets done..

37

I enjoyed the video, and it echos my thoughts as well. After much deliberation among the chaos that is my mind, I decided to not upgrade to Zorin OS 18, as far as loyalty goes, the dev's have let me down, and confirm my decision to stay on Zorin OS 16 for now.

To that end, when I am actually ready to install a new OS, I am probably going to just install Linux Mint. I've tried POP OS, and not even that OS is perfect, and has actually caused issues on a family members computer, because its too old, for latest and greatest software.

The promise of Zorin OS is dead to me, and the more time that actually goes by, the more a sour taste in my mouth, resulting from the decisions of the dev's. I believe TOSS on YouTube also uses Linux Mint if I recall, I think he's got the right idea.

Thanks for sharing the video's, as I really feel that its important, to discuss these issues, thats how democracy works. When people hide behind secrecy and lack of transparency, thats what a dictatorship does.

Startreker Signature
Startreker Signature700×342 112 KB

1 Like
38

Congrats on waking up. But wouldn't you be at risk staying with Zorin OS 16?

It's unsupported. Or am I missing something ... ? Is it somehow still safe to use?

1 Like
39

The implication here is clear and one you repeat often. That if someone does not agree with your viewpoint, that their eyes are sleepy and closed.
No.
It means that they are looking at things differently than you are.

Running a distro that is no longer receiving updates is not really unsafe. Yes, it may not get security updates that if there is a variable that needs closing or correction - but how many individuals are really a target for High Level Hacking?
For the average person; it is safe.
In fact, being cutting edge is where the danger lies:

1 Like
40

But the .xz Thing affected Zorin, too. We had to got an Security Update.