Cinnamon desktop is very similar in this regard.
It is one thing I actually like about having moved my themes to launchpad and away from Pling... Any user that wishes can install my themes with sudo apt install (theme-name) and remove it sudo apt remove (theme-name).
It made that easier, in my opinion than offering them as a download ever did.
And users on different releases can just use the .deb installer.
All are a long shot beyond Gnome, which offers no panel editing.
In XFCE, panel editing offers a lot of customization options that are so versatile, any user can do much more than just follow the settings.
For example (as a very simple example), using a custom made background image can be used to create an effect for which there is no direct setting. You can also create a custom .css in your home directory to alter panel appearance to create a slew of custom appearances, which you cannot do with KDE.
From my perspective, a new user can make good use of the built-in settings, but having that room for growth as the user gains more experience counts for a lot, too. Having settings handed to you without the ability to step so much outside of them is less appealing to me.
As the old adage says, "each to their own". I have no intention of learning css as versatile as it is. Most users just want to boot up and use. One of the reasons I chose an Amiga 1500 over a PC with DOS to launch Win 3.1.
Themes has a delete button in kde as does wallpapers etc. For those who want to create custom themes that is fine, I understand that theming is easier to do in the environment that you work in. Just remember most of the world's population is aged and unless they have advanced knowledge of theming, css and the like, others like me just want to see what is out there and use that.
Completely valid. Certainly, there is much I have not been learning, too.
I do think it is preferable to have both options available, though, rather than limited to one option.
I didn't intend to create a arena for desktop environment wars...
The discussion so far reminds me of when I first encountered Zorin OS. At the time, I couldn't imagine that there was a big difference between Core and Lite; Lite is not a subset of Core, but has completely different features. I think this certainly confuse users.
I wouldn't call it wars, more of a healthy discussion. Personally, I would like to see the variety of DEs maintained, because once you go down the unilateral route you might as well go back to Windows. I also like the variety of Distributions because after all, "Variety is the spice of life", or as my Great Aunt used to say, " Kissing a man without a moustache is like having food without pepper". Now there's a thought ... MoustachePepper OS!
I agree with this statement wholeheartedly.
Discussing differences in perspectives is a very huge leap toward understanding other points of view.
Greater understanding is what can prevent wars. Or... altercations. Most arguments stem from lacking understanding of another.
These D.E.'s all have their advantages and disadvantages. Each offers certain things and some do things in different ways... And that is what creates a good solid match for many. What I enjoy most about the modular nature of them is the ability to mix and match.
A good example of this would be:
using LXDE-gtk3, with XFWM4 window management and the XFCE4-panel, and Nemo file manager.
Unlike Mac or Windows, on Linux a user can romp around and enjoy many different options. That is an amazing thing, and unparalleled. Granted, it might be confusing to new users.
But what isn't confusing to a newcomer in any thing? All things are confusing, at first. Learning to drive. Learning Windows OS is very confusing the first time you do it.
The trick is not to avoid the confusing things, but to learn. Learn new things every day.
Eventually, you will have accumulated enough knowledge, that when you get old, you can blame any residual confusion on dementia.
I think that what I enjoyed the most (besides the great forum of course) about Zorin OS is that I only needed to do some minor tweaks to the interface to get it where I wanted it. I had been using Manjaro XFCE for a couple years, and never really got it where I wanted it. I've been with Zorin on a couple of computers for almost a year now, and it still looks good and is behaving well. I'm lucky in that my pc's are pretty powerfull, and even though they are approaching 4 years old, don't seem to be lacking in speed for my needs. I use them mostly for photo editing and some video work, in addition to Inkscape and onlyoffice projects.
My question was whether Zorin OS can handle the information gap. I have installed several desktop environments on Zorin OS, and since I have learned that the appeal of this distro for me is dependent on Gnome, I thought it best for me to maintain the status quo for now. Please keep in mind that my interest is in what the Zorin OS is and will be, not in DE.
PS: I think Zorin OS is a clever customization of Ubuntu that has come to the present. So I have hope for the future of this distro.
Ah, thank you for clarifying that. It's what I initially understood but wasn't too sure, simply because I don't share the same opinion about that sequence of events.
Technology today is more powerful and accessible than ever before. The vast majority of the world's population has access to a somewhat reliable internet connection. Even farmers from under developed and sometimes even oppressed countries have that.
Traveling has historically been the main medium to exchange of ideas and information. And, just like technology, it's has gotten cheaper and easier for decades.
The information gap doesn't exist because of decaying quality of the hardware, poverty, or even the lack of access to the information itself. It's much more straightforward, well documented and, quite literally, battle tested than that.
You and I have different opinions, but I think you have a point. Perhaps our differing experiences have led to our differing perspectives. The reason I feel threatened now is because I am seeing the collapse of a wealthy society right in front of my eyes.
Yes, sometimes the answer is staring right at you and still manage to miss it. That's what was happening to me with the subject, given the conversation kept rotating around desktop environments
I would like to take a moment to uhhh.... highlight this statement, zoom in and enhance it.
The topic is complex and none of us have sufficient data to reach an unbiased scientific conclusion on the topic.
What this leaves us all with is Opinion.
Opinions are perfectly fine. They are our go to tool for trying to model reality. In many ways, opinions are similar to hypothesis.
It is very important to remember that a Hypothesis is not a theory, though.
We can all get opinionated, but please always remember that we are all opinionated.
Reading this, it is certianly easy to see both opinions from my own vantage point.
This statement, I disagree with.
It over-simplifies a complexity. It is not what you said, as much as the way you said it. You specified that it does not exist due to poverty levels, for example.
Wealth clearly shows a disparity in information availability. Wealthier people have access to better education.
And people in poverty often have only limited internet access. Often, the poorer people are gouged on bandwidth, which causes them to be unwilling to waste bandwidth on non-essential information searches.
We cannot just discount this simply because technically poor people around the world have internet access these days. This does not make them better educated nor informed.
I certainly agree with both your points about Bread and Circus and Divide and Conquer.
And the dichotomy of information access is a great way to divide....
What makes a discussion really great is where people disagree - since we can then really examine the merit of different opinions and examine different points of view that can give clarity to vision.
Recent history has shown that there are a lot of people willing to ignore the overwhelming evidence that there was a global pandemic caused by a dangerous and highly contagious virus.
Similar disagreements happen pretty much every day all over the developed countries about topics like the war in Ukraine, illegal electronic surveillance or the flat Earth theory.
My point being, that people with virtually unrestricted access to the most abundant source of information that has ever existed in the entire history of human kind, readily available on demand, at the literal tip of their fingers, chooses to disagree on topics that are well documented and proven true. Sometimes by the scientific community, sometimes ruled out by a judge, sometimes by leaked or declassified documents, sometimes by well overdue confessions and sometimes by even the sheer use of logic.
What's really interesting is not who is right or wrong. Is that people tend to believe in whatever suits them best, because it's convenient, because someone they admire said so, because they don't care to think about it and go along with it, etc. Similarly, people tend to ignore and shut down information that contradicts those beliefs. Like you said: a bias.
Yes, poverty causes people to be less educated and have limited access to crucial information that could benefit them and, in turn, the communities the live in. But this effect is very limited in scope and therefore negligible (to the issue at hand).
Religious followers are more common on poorer countries and communities. It has been proven multiple times already that the catholic church has engaged in child abuse systematically in many countries, and that they tried to hide it. It is a known fact. Yet people still go to church and donate their hard earned money. They probably tell themselves that it was just a few bad apples, and call it a day. That story is much easier to believe than having to take some form of action that goes against their belief system.
Let's talk definitions for a moment.
Without a clear definition, word meanings can become subjective opinions.
The word "theory" is one that gets applied incorrectly a bit too often.
When people say theory, they often really mean hypothesis or idea or... opinion.
A Theory is a model of reality that has been shown to be accurate through testing. As you can see, in this actual defined way - a Theory is not a guess or an opinion.
Flat Earth Theory cannot exist because it is an oxymoron. There are claims that the Earth is flat... But it is not a theory, because it is not supported by observation, measurement or testing and a theory requires these things.
This is why Relativity is a Theory and why SuperString and SuperSymmetry are not theory because String is utterly untested.
The word "Prove", "proven", "Proof" also all misapplied.
Proofs only exist in mathematics. Just like infinities. They exist ONLY in mathematics.
As an analogy as to why...
How do you Know, and I mean, really know, that you are really looking at your computer screen right now?
You could be locked up in a straight jacket and drooling on yourself right now, as I beam this experience of reading a forum post directly into your mind using advanced alien technology.
As absurd as that sounds... You don't know and cannot know for sure. It is within the realm of plausibility that your life experiences only exist in a matrix.
Proofs only exist in Mathematics. In the real physical world, with our limited perceptions encased in the brain and senses barrier, the best we can manage is to gather as much evidence as we can, eliminate as much bias as we can and try to Model Reality in a way that explains our observations, matches the data and can make meaningful predictions to demonstrate the models accuracy.
The above outline ties in quite directly to this topic. We can demonstrate this by your next statement:
What you describe is a lack of Guided Education. People may have a bias or form opinions based on beliefs and on wants.
Just like not wanting to believe that a pandemic is dangerous or wanting to follow the advise given by someone they support or admire. Whether or not this effect is negligible when factoring in poverty becomes a bit more involved.
Or... to be more my very blunt self: It is not negligible by any measure. At all.
) As wealth decreases, access to abundant and reliable information decreases
) As wealth decreases, access to reliable and Guided education decreases
) As wealth decreases, poverty stricken people are more prone to cling to what can give them hope (See your Bread & Circus example).
This gap is not only glaring, it is pronounced and it is stark. Lesser wealthy people get a three-hitter that puts them at every disadvantage. They are already looked down on by Classism. Next, they have access to less information. And lastly, what information they can get is often unguided, overwhelming and hard to understand since there is no Foundation of Education to uphold it.
Can you blame an ignorant person for believing in anti-mask movements when it is not only all they know... but all they have been permitted to know?
This information gap is widening due to the algorithms used by Facebook and Google. Intended to appeal to the user base by showing them what they are interested in by use of target market advertising (=profit), this had a side effect of wrapping people up in a sheltered bubble that only reaffirms their beliefs and opinions and neglects anything that does not.
The poor have fast, easy and free access to facebook and google. And in loneliness and the general malaise of poverty, are quick to turn to it for comfort.
But they do not have access to higher education, Universities and Open Knowledge. It is almost as guarded today as it was in Alexandria, protected by a mighty high pay wall.
Admittedly, I am a Capitalist Dog. However, the evidence is strong that Capitalism cannot work all by itself. It must be tempered by our society. For the survival of our species, our chances dramatically increase as Higher Education availability also increases. Especially if we get on the topics that really matter like Climate Change.
Where a majority of citizens really being educated and understanding the issues becomes paramount.
To offset what the poor are limited to like Facebook and LooseChange and ConspiracyWeb101...
Needless to say, I am an open and unashamed atheist. Though you can imagine, it has drawn ire and fire many times. I get judged by more humans than Gods, anytime.
That said... Movie stars, politicians, neighbors and... computer Programmers that are famous have engaged in horrifying crimes.
It is only reasonable that we do not assume that because some in a crowd are criminal, that the entire crowd is incriminated.
We agree though that religion is more prevalent among the poor. Which really tries in with point three that I outlined above^
) As wealth decreases, poverty stricken people are more prone to cling to what can give them hope (See your Bread & Circus example).
In many parts of the Philippines, for example, neighbors must be cautious not to quarrel, lest of one gets ill or dies, the other neighbor be accused of having used witchcraft to compel it.
And the locals will swear by it.
The void must be filled by something and with a lack of Education and Available coherent organized information... it may be filled by superstition, belief, suspicion, paranoia, hope, propaganda or even... apathy.
Availability of resources is exactly what wealth measures.
