Frustrations with Zorin -

[susan]

@Aravisian

hope to encourage you to try out Zorin Lite at that time.

6 hours trying to get a bootable usb to put Zorin Lite on.... Every "bootable" creation program doesn't install on the Zorin and the Win 7 programs tell me that the two downloads of Zorin Lite are faulty. And when Zorin asked to install a Win support program it failed so the Win boot to Lite iso failed... The Zorin "install software" & "run software" don't work for the create bootable usb drive.

@Aravisian

install XFCE desktop environement, log out, click the cog wheel and change to XFCE desktop, and log in and take it from there as an alternative.

THANK YOU! I am still in Zorin Ultimate but wow what a nicer layout (so far) the Apache shortcut now works without me doing anything, settings are easier (to me), I walked away after 5 min of browser not bringing up its graphics. So still the video issue - maybe Monday I can get through to the NVIDIA chat line.

I get so frustrated at trying to understand the documentation of linux programs when you click on the install it shows a litany of you can do this or you can do that or IF you use "x" switch it will = Y...

Now I will try the new desktop and see IF that makes some issues easier.

[Aravisian]

@susan

6 hours trying to get a bootable usb to put Zorin Lite on… Every “bootable” creation program doesn’t install on the Zorin and the Win 7 programs tell me that the two downloads of Zorin Lite are faulty. And when Zorin asked to install a Win support program it failed so the Win boot to Lite iso failed… The Zorin “install software” & “run software” don’t work for the create bootable usb drive.

This is just nuts. I admire your perseverance. I use Unetbootin for most Bootable media.

@susan

THANK YOU! I am still in Zorin Ultimate but wow what a nicer layout (so far) the Apache shortcut now works without me doing anything, settings are easier (to me),

I hope it helps. I agree about the settings and you and I are Not Alone in that agreement. I have argued and argued with others that Gnome Desktop, geared toward developer options, is Terrible for someone switching to Linux. Both XFCE and cinnamon (I use Cinnamon) are much more organized, intuitive and user friendly. On Zorin Lite (XFCE) desktop, I use Whiskermenu instead of the default Start Menu

sudo apt install xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin

If you like, you can try it out to see if it helps you search programs (XFCE "app finder" helps a lot, too) and find things more easily. Can even theme it for uniformity.

@susan

So still the video issue - maybe Monday I can get through to the NVIDIA chat line.

Nvidia and Linux- If you could, check if you are using Proprietary or Nouveau Drivers.
You can check with a quick terminal command:

dpkg -l | grep -i nvidia

lsmod | grep nouveau

@susan

I get so frustrated at trying to understand the documentation of linux programs when you click on the install it shows a litany of you can do this or you can do that or IF you use “x” switch it will = Y…

Installing on Open Source can get confusing because the Developers Often Assume too much about the user. And they often point the user in, frankly, the wrong direction. How often is it you look up some Open Source software and the installation page has some convoluted instructions for checking dependencies and how to build from source...Or offer you the Binary Packages independently... When The Thing is In the Ubuntu Repository and all you need to so is

sudo apt install _____

I dunno.
Right off the bat, try using synaptic as much as possible as your Installation Manager.
Open Synaptic- search for the package you want by name.
If Synaptic cannot find it, try your first Google or Duck search to be that package name plus repository. Then add the repository, run "sudo apt update" to ensure that repo does not give a 404 error, then run "sudo apt-get install" package name.
It usually is that easy and it is a LOT more secure than other options since Repos require keys.
Some things like Apache and Nvidia, though, are a different animal. Apache is Stubborn and Nvidia and Linus Torvalds hate eachothers Guts. The money is on M$ and Nvidia caters toward that direction and intensely dislikes ensuring that their code works with Free Open Source. And Torvalds likes to give Nvidia the finger- not just figuratively, either. Fortunately, Torvalds and his team are very good at keeping the Linux kernel patched to continue to cover for Nvidias shortcomings, in spite of Nvidia regularly and constantly patching their firmware.
As a new user of Zorin and Linux myself, I know that initial frustration very very well. During the first two weeks, I recall clearly stating on the ZorinGroupForum that I hated Zorin OS and thought it was the worst OS, ever (I was still using Gnome Desktop back then). Grumpiest Member of the board for a while. But that quickly changed and now, I have distro-hopped all over the place and tried about twenty different distro's - some quite good - but always only install Zorin OS on my machines. It does get much better. I do not even install and use WINE anymore. I am fully integrated into Linux these days.

[susan]

@Aravisian

This is just nuts. I admire your perseverance. I use Unetbootin for most Bootable media.

I now have about 15 hours into making a Zorin Lite bootable USB. DONE! TG I have a disk management program that will recover unusable drives. The program that Zorin recomends Echter and #2 Rufus both have semi destroyed new USB drives - I say semi because after Win refused to format them the other program did make them usable again.

I ran the Lite from the USB and it seems like the video is not hanging up. BUT I had hoped I would have full access to the other Zorin installed programs that I worked so hard to get running - mainly the Apache. SO the big question is IF I do the Lite install WITHOUT formatting the drive will they be readily available? If they are still on the drive making them "run" again should be easier than starting from scratch. All the files will already be in their proper "folders". Apache only showed 32 & 64 bit options but I wonder if Lite vs Ultimate handle differently what in Win are "dll" containing sub routines?

Your other desktop sent me in panic mode with its screen saver. It kinda locked in and it took about two minutes of fiddling with buttons & keys to get the desktop back --- BUT was that a hangup of the video driver? It is a much more user - neophytes & someone who doesn't care how the computer does what it does that just want their results - create a doc or spreadsheet or web surf or play with photos & watch videos or music... people who generally just buy new instead even attempting any repair. That is where Gary Kidall was headed when he developed the first really usable Gem Desktop that Gates based Windows on. I cut my teeth on DR DOS if that dates me.

The more I think about it - I have two months before I must use the printer again - that I'll just try it. Worst that can happen is I have to reinstall the Ultimate again..... and then go through this thread to make the good changes again.

I sincerely want to thank you for the time you have spent assisting me through this journey. I'd say you should do a uBoob or New Tube video titled "Linux for Neophytes ONLY". Problem of it getting lost among all the others. The final program that worked to create the bootable USB was from a 7 yr old uBoob video by a young British kid. Its called Yumi. All I can say is - IT WORKED. And it allows multiple OS on one USB drive to chose from as it boots a machine. Wish now I had put both Zorin OS on the one drive but I have two Zorin & one Ubuntu USB drives now.

Thank you
Susan

[Aravisian]

@susan

Echter and #2 Rufus both have semi destroyed new USB drives - I say semi because after Win refused to format them the other program did make them usable again.

Personally, I do NOT recommend Balena Etcher. I never had anything else except problems with it and have heard too much anecdotal evidence from others that confirms that to give it a chance.

@susan

SO the big question is IF I do the Lite install WITHOUT formatting the drive will they be readily available?

As tempting as this is (And yes, that is possible) I would highly reccomend against it. Please consider the following:
1.) Installing again helps you to get practice. I realize that you comment above that sometimes, a person just wants something to work without the user having to think much about it. While that is nicely convenient, it is never trustworthy. The best way for things to work is for the user to understand how it works. Our brains do not have Limited Capacity, though we are a bit like a computer in that our processor does seem to like to take things one at a time.
2.) Installing Apache again will prevent a preserved overwrite from having Critical Errors that you cannot predict that can pop up and haunt you at any time. The last thing you want is to think Apache is good after installing- Only to find it fails you in short notice when you really need it. A stable and secure install is what you need- Especially if you are communicating with a cardiologist.
I am quite confident we can start a thread and take the Apache install a step at a time and get things set up nicely.

@susan

but I wonder if Lite vs Ultimate handle differently what in Win are “dll” containing sub routines?

Zorin Ultimate comes with Zorin Ultimate LITE, as well. It comes with Both Versions and if you have Zorin Ultimate, then you already have access to a download for Zorin Ultimate Lite in your Receipt Email.
Zorin Ultimate Lite and Zorin Lite are nearly identical and they handle process and functions in exactly the same way (Although both are different from Zorin Core and Zorin Ultimate Core.)
Core and Lite do handle things differently than each other because they use different Desktop Environments and a different Shell.
Win uses .dll files, Linux uses .so or Shared Object files. Similar, but not similar enough to work with eachother. Between Core and Lite, either handles .so files the same way.

The difference between Zorin Ultimate Lite and Zorin Lite is that Zorin Ultimate Lite comes with many apps pre-installed, removing any hassle, fuss or need to install on the users end. It exposes the user to apps they would normally have never tried- like for me, to Hugin Batch Processor, which I never heard of, but performs much better than the XNCovnert that I have been using. Zorin Ultiamte offers some additional Aesthetics, theming or appearance options, like a Mac OS style Layout.
Zorin Ultimate sales Fund Development and are primarily a way of contributing to the project and thanking the developers for creating, testing and servicing a solid OS. However, Zorin Ultimate Core/Lite OS does NOT contain additional functionality or necessary Features that are lacking, missing or locked in Core or Lite. All versions of Zorin contain the same functionality.

@susan

Your other desktop sent me in panic mode with its screen saver. It kinda locked in and it took about two minutes of fiddling with buttons & keys to get the desktop back — BUT was that a hangup of the video driver? I

I have no idea what happened there... But you can disable the screensaver completely with the terminal command

xset s 0 0

Or you can disable all screen timeouts with:

xset dpms 0 0 0

[susan]

@Aravisian

As tempting as this is (And yes, that is possible) I would highly reccomend against it.

Ya I did it... and I agree with you. Files are there BUT..

NOW you have me wondering about the Ultimate Lite - IF this Lite does NOT have the video issues in the 15 minutes of use. Which do I choose. Hey just another install right? Big thing is not having access because I just do not know where ubuntu hides which files on the other old partition holding the Ultimate version. Scared me when the install asked if I wanted to install ubuntu then after it brought up the Zorin logo..

Well go prep the USB drive again...

[susan]

@Aravisian

Zorin Ultimate sales Fund Development and are primarily a way of contributing to the project and thanking the developers for creating, testing and servicing a solid OS.

I bought the full Ultimate to start with. I have no problem of paying developers for their work. I am just annoyed that they did not respond to my help request that included my purchase registration number. Just nothing.

[susan]

@Aravisian

The difference between Zorin Ultimate Lite and Zorin Lite is that Zorin Ultimate Lite comes with many apps pre-installed, removing any hassle, fuss or need to install on the users end.

Downloaded the Ultimate Lite and created a new bootable USB to install it. Wiped the drive and install went OK. Added the xfce4 BUT other than the different backgrounds it did not do what it had done in the full Ultimate. Also did the workingmenu but it doesn't appear to have made any differences.

Apache OpenOffice was a snap after I found this uBoob video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=trXeHOPWsBs
BUT it is best to go into the apps list and remove the Libre programs before installing the Apache OpenOffice. I did get one video lockup during the unpacking and after 5 min did a hard shutdown & reboot. Redoing that unpacking went fine and completed the installation and placed the start links in the menu Office folder. I even learned to place a link on the Taskbar.

This OS seemed to have a problem with HP printer driver but still printed a test page fine. Did not try it with OpenOffice.

Now to see IF I can add it to my MS Win network to run my backups to two 1TB USB drives vs manually plugging them into my laptops.

I also created a "Notepad" txt doc of commands that can be copied and pasted into the "terminal window" vs typing in each character.

I guess this will end this thread. Frustrations are eliminated with a working OS even if it is not "perfect" sure wish the xfce4 file system worked... so much better that the stock Zorin system.

Wish I could at least buy you a pizza & soda but I guess all I can do is say THANK YOU again for the help, advice and guidance that you have taken your time to provide.
Susan

[Aravisian]

@susan

I bought the full Ultimate to start with. I have no problem of paying developers for their work. I am just annoyed that they did not respond to my help request that included my purchase registration number. Just nothing.

I understand that feeling. We all dislike feeling like we have been ignored. However, it can be important to not jump to the conclusion that we have been, too.
I am not a member of Zorin Team, I do not work for the team, nor even moderate the board- I am just a member. And as such, it allows me the ability to speak more Frankly about Zorin, without any regard for representing Zorin OS in any way whatsoever.
I have argued with Artyom Zorin about Gnome D.E. as not being user friendly and a poor choice of Desktop Environment for anyone migrating from Windows. We disagree often.
But Artyom and Kyrill have both only ever shown a strong sense of Honor in the time I have participated on their forums. They are TWO people, currently pushing to release Zorin 16 which they had previously suggested may be released at the end of 2020. And they are also now fielding more Help Requests on top of that.
Your name is assuredly on a list that is approaching attention. Like calling some companies Tech Support- sometimes there is a long wait time.
Not always, though. Timing...
I am Confident that you will find a message from the Zorin Team - it just has not happened yet.

But we on the forum ain't here hatchin eggs. Those of us that do field questions here do so voluntarily to help out. Often times, the forum can help get things sorted out and resolved, even if it happens before you get a reply form the Development Team.

@susan

Downloaded the Ultimate Lite and created a new bootable USB to install it. Wiped the drive and install went OK. Added the xfce4 BUT other than the different backgrounds it did not do what it had done in the full Ultimate.

I do not understand this line.
Zorin Ultimate Lite uses XFCE4 Desktop - it comes with it. Did you install XFCE4 on top of Zorin Desktop?

Your statement is also very vague, here... "It did not do what it did in Full Ultimate" - I have no frame of reference to compare against.
Zorin Ultimate and Zorin Ultimate Lite are Both Full Ultimate. The only difference between them is which Desktop Environment they use.
GNome Desktop, used in Ultimate and Core, is a Resource Heavier Environment, and XFCE4, used in Ultimate Lite and Zorin Lite is lighter on resource usage.

@susan

Also did the workingmenu but it doesn’t appear to have made any differences.

The workingmenu?

@susan

BUT it is best to go into the apps list and remove the Libre programs before installing the Apache OpenOffice.

Agreed. Some people say they can both be installed and used together, but I have heard too often that Libreoffice will conflict with Apache trying to access files. It's better to Choose One and stick with it.

@susan

I also created a “Notepad” txt doc of commands that can be copied and pasted into the “terminal window” vs typing in each character.

I have also done this since I first started using Zorin.
My Documents folder is filled with lists. Also, you can "up arrow" in terminal to access bash History (stored as .bash_history in your Home Folder) to quickly up-arrow to a previously used command rather than retyping it.
As you get settled in, if you like, I can teach you how to alter your terminal to include Spellcheck, word suggestions and much more.

@susan

sure wish the xfce4 file system worked… so much better that the stock Zorin system.

I do not understand again-- What xfce4 file system does not work? There are no specifics.
Zorin Lite and Zorin Ultimate Lite come with XFCE4 desktop, that is as much"Stock" system as Gnome is on Ultimate and on Ultimate Core.

The operating system on Core, Ultimate, Lite and Ultimate Lite are all Identical.
The only difference is that two of the above options use Canonicals Gnome Environment and two use the independent XFCE4 environment. neither of these environments were created or developed by Zorin Team, in fact, they were developed when the Zorins were both young kids.
(Thoough interestingly, the Zorins actually created their first Distro, which they named in honor of their father, when they were Ten and Twelve years old).
Really, need to check what you mean about "adding XFCE4" as if you had tried to install it on LIte, it would have given an error that it was already present and current version.

@susan

Wish I could at least buy you a pizza & soda

Oh no... You could TOTALLY buy me a Dr. Pepper.

[AZorin]

Hi Susan,
I’m sorry to hear about your experience. We have checked all of our email inboxes, but it doesn’t appear that we received any messages from you.

We would be happy to help you with any outstanding issues you have here on this thread or in a Private Message to me on the forum.

Once again, our apologies for this issue.

[susan]

@Aravisian

I do not understand again-- What xfce4 file system does not work? There are no specifics.

When I first tried the xfce4 it not only changed the desktop "face" but changed the file system to look like a Win file system. Not just a single folder but the entire tree system. Also icons changed to more recognizable images.

@Aravisian

On Zorin Lite (XFCE) desktop, I use Whiskermenu instead of the default Start Menu

sudo apt install xfce4-whiskermenu-plugin

I wasn't video recording or I would be able to show the response from the terminal. Looked like they both did an install but made no difference.

@Aravisian

you could do as I did and install XFCE desktop environment, log out, click the cog wheel and change to XFCE desktop, and log in and take it from there as an alternative.

And no option to select on boot up. The first time I installed the xfce4 there was a "star wheel" next to the "Sign in" to choose which format I wanted to use. Now there is no choice as it only uses the xfce4 desktop.

WOW!!!!!!!!!! Sorry to have not responded but medical issue kept me from accessing the machine that Zorin is installed in until yesterday...

It shows it is accessing my network but my Windows machines do not see it so I was reading about Samba and tried to get it to work.. SAMBA Installation Guide but again it is written in Mandarin for all the sense it makes. Downloaded but the "tar" command either says bad parameter or ??? and the 7z Unzip works BUT...

I am limited to about 15 minutes at that computer unfortunately. I tried to install the remote access but that failed also...

Another issue is even though I have removed Firefox and Thunderbird the system still wants to install a number of language support files as security updates.

Again sorry for not responding but my body had very different priorities.
Susan

[Aravisian]

@susan

Looked like they both did an install but made no difference.

Once installed, you can then add it to the panel. Right click the panel and you will see a Panel option with a menu arrow- move to that arrow and you can then see "Preferences". Click that to open the Panel Preferences window. This has three tabs. The last tab is Items- these are the items added to or removed from the panel. Click on that Items tab and as you scroll through the list of available applets to add to or remove from the panel, you should see WhiskerMenu near the bottom.
You can click the Plus sign to add it to the panel. In this same Items tab, you will see on that right side toolbar an Up Arrow and a Down arrow. Highlight the WhiskerMenu in the items tab, then you can move it to the position you want it to be in using those arrows. Let's say you want to replace the Zorin Menu with it; Highlight the ZorinMenu Lite, then click the minus sign. Click whiskerMenu and click plus to add, then click the Up Arrow to move it to the top of the list, where ZorinMenu Lite previously occupied.

@susan

The first time I installed the xfce4 there was a “star wheel” next to the “Sign in” to choose which format I wanted to use. Now there is no choice as it only uses the xfce4 desktop.

Gnome (Zorin Core) uses GDM3 to manage the Login Screen and GDM3 has the star wheel or cog wheel icon next to the User account.
Zorin Lite - XFCE4 - uses LightDM and not GDM3. The principles are the same, but the layout is just a bit different is all. Unlike GDM3, Lightdm has a Top Panel, much like the panel on your desktop (Taskbar in Windows). And this panel holds Items and tools. To switch desktop Environments from LightDM, look to the upper right side on that Panel and you will see keyboard icon, language icon... And Desktop Environment Icon, usually showing a Logo for that. If you are logged in currently on Zorin OS desktop Lite, then you will see the icon Zorin "Z" logo. If logged in XFCE, you may see the Mouse (animal kind of mouse) logo. Click that icon and a drop down menu appears showing your choices in Desktop Environment.

@susan

Another issue is even though I have removed Firefox and Thunderbird the system still wants to install a number of language support files as security updates.

This is a known frustration to us all... Firefox is Very Persistent. Too persistent. Fortunately, there are solutions to that.:
Carmar and I both gave two different solutions to this:

How do I reject certain updates permanently? How do I keep them unchecked forever?

If I recall correctly, Swarf had suggested removing the extra language packs using Synaptic. I had tried it and it worked - haven’t been prompted since. PS - I should cite Aravisian for spamming with double posts just so he can remember whose bright idea it was to make me a moderator.

@susan

(snip)but again it is written in Mandarin for all the sense it makes. Downloaded but the “tar” command either says bad parameter or ??? and the 7z Unzip works BUT…

I am limited to about 15 minutes at that computer unfortunately. I tried to install the remote access but that failed also…

When switching to something new and unfamiliar, getting your bearings is the toughest part. Like where that Star Wheel was and with a change to LightDM, the Desktop Option is in another place. How are you supposed to know where it went off to? With use, all things become familiar. With time, they become home.
At brief intervals per day, that could be a benefit. You can take your time and ask on Each Issue in a new thread, staying organized and getting step by step help along the way to familiarize yourself with the new Operating System and learn all it has to offer.