If Zorin did not exist which distro are you switching to?

I would say this is probably true at least to a degree. I did not like stock Gnome for a long time.

But what I do like about it is that it is extremely space efficient and it has limited distractions so I can focus on what I am working on. I am also a huge fan of Gnome's extremely powerful window spread that works everywhere and every time no matter what you are doing.

But I acknowledge that unless you are a keyboard driven multi-tasker (I mostly am not) it is slower to switch between applications in stock Gnome than it is in a Windows interface.

Also what on earth is the reasoning behind no minimize and maximize buttons in stock Gnome? I really would like to hear if anybody understands what they are thinking

This is exactly why I am not a fan of KDE personally. It is extremely powerful, the most powerful of any desktop environment but it comes at the cost of accidental changes which I can not stand. I want my computer to work the same way every time any deviation bothers me.

I have made accidental changes in XFCE but it is no where near as often as it is with KDE for me.


There is much to Gnome to like. While I am often critical of Gnome, it is biased more by what Gnome is doing to Linux as a whole, than by what they do on their desktop. A person may note that while I do not use Most all other (there are so many) desktops, I am only critical of Gnome.
Plasma - I am honest about, but I also am supportive of it.
LXDE, XFCE, Mate, Cinnamon, Enlightenment - all get praise from me even if I can offer suggestions on how they might improve.
Gnome stands apart. It does so because it vies for dominance. And it does so at the users expense.

Again: Tobias Bernards blog.
They wish to switch Gnome over to be much more like how Mobile Android behaves and performs. They are convinced that that is the future.
They want to be first to offer that future.

The reality, however, is that Mobile is as it is due to it being a far more limited environment than a Desktop PC is. Mobile performs and behaves in such a limited fashion because it is NOT a computer.
Keeping a computer as a computer is essential for productive work flow. We use our computers for computing. We use mobile as fast access, quick snippets and entertainment sitting on the bus.


I have always taken Gnome as taking a more "Apple-like" mentality. Believing that for the most part the user needs to use the computer the way they (Gnome) thinks you should. That uses having more control is not in the users best interest.

But I have got to say Ive got to agree with you about the "no minimize and no maximize thing". I can not think of any benefit to the user and have wondered about that for years. That is a stock Gnome decision I will never agree with.

I 150% agree with this. Windows 8 was a DISASTER because of this mentality. I absolutely hated it.

One thing I will give Apple credit for is they at least understood they are 2 separate markets.


Exactly, yes. Though our examples differ - we definitely agree on their mentality.

And... of course... I disagree with Gnome. It is the same mentality Android and Microsoft both use.
It is one that says the users are dumb and need to be controlled.
See... on this forum, I could fall into that trap while troubleshooting with users about their issues. And many I.T. personnel eagerly fall into that trap, almost throwing themselves into it.
But the exact opposite happens. The users will even say outright things like, "I am new to Linux." "I can't do this." "No terminal, please." "I am not a technical person, not a programmer, not a coder..."
And Each Time, I say
"You can do this." "You are capable and able." "Believe in yourself - Try. You got this." And each time, they get it.
They do it.
They succeed.

We are not dumb. We do not need to be controlled. We only need Help In Learning.
Much of I.T. teaches people that they can't and relies on them relying on I.T. People are routinely taught by Windows and other sources to Not Believe in themselves. And fear allows them to go along with it.

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I partly agree with this. I do not think users are dumb but I do think that most users would prefer to give up a bit of control to reduce the likelihood of unintended results.

On a slightly different but related topic I do not think using Linux is any more difficult than using Windows. It is simply different.

Is "sudo apt install firefox" more difficult than finding an exe and installing it? (and liable to be other junk with it that you did not want)

I have got to say this is true and I had never thought of it that way.


Yes, many would. And we are taught to do so, along with it being the general nature of being a living thing to seek out the path of least resistance. Least effort.

But humans are capable of appreciating putting in effort and enjoying the results, too. Some people like to learn, some prefer not to have to learn. But most people can enjoy learning and getting benefits from it.
Another Idea:
It does not have to be a choice of giving up control.
The control can be in place, but not easily tampered with unless you know what you are doing.
As an example:
Running the dangerous terminal command rm -rf could come with a warning that says, "This command will wipe your entire hard drive and on newer drives may brick the device. Are you sure you wish to proceed?"
Instead of blocking all access to the command.
The option of blocking access and limiting user freedom and controls... Well, it does not go well:

I had been following that thread. That is absolutely ridiculous. Even APPLE does not feel the need to go that far.

While I do know my way around I personally still prefer the interface to be more locked down unless I explicitly want to make changes. I always thought KDE should have something along the lines of a "hide edit mode" option in Settings. I would be ok with Gnome doing something similar to that.

Hard to show you, but if I am in a program and save a new file, and choose the location before I name the file, when I go back to name it, anything I type ends up in an input for search.

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Can you give me an example of a program this happens to you in? I just tried in text editor and can not get a similar result.

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I have seen this happen in Nautilus...
It happens if the click is not made directly on the name field.

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I just switched to "Stock Gnome" and another decision I do not like is the hot corner. I prefer to explicitly click the activities icon. So I turn that off in Tweaks as well.

Can you tell me exactly what you mean by that? I have been trying to understand

I'm using Nemo currently, and that's where I see it. Of course when I try to reproduce it now, I can't. I'll try to make a note next time it happens and see if I can get a screen recording.

Ok as a fast example that drives me nuts:
Open Gimp and uncheck single window mode. Open an image. Make an edit in GIMP of the image and ctrl+c copy it. Now, instead of pasting it over the canvas in GIMP, use ctrl+shift+v to paste it as a new window.
The new window appears minimized to the panel, instead of open on the screen.

I believe there is a setting to make it open as Open instead of as minimized - At the time, I had to search for it. Then later, it reverted itself...
Drove me nuts.

Great. I also use Nemo as my default. So maybe I can help replicate it.

Completely understand. I can definitely see that being annoying as well. I rarely have more than one window open which is probably why I have not particularly noticed this. (I hate screen clutter. Can not have more than 2 or 3 tabs on a browser as well lol) (Ive always wondered if I have a minor case of OCD)

Drives me nuts when I go to my wife's Macbook and she has 10 windows and 20 tabs open XD

When I am doing creation or graphics, I can have a large number of windows open, which I am editing, comparing against each other and switching back and forth - combining elements.
Another is in creating SVG images, where I can have multiple layers open in multiple windows of inkscape, then I will ultimately stack into one image - but need separate in order to build it.
In making a system theme, I might need the .css file, the index.theme file and the images all opened at one time, so that the right hand knows what the left is doing.

I am the same with browsers- the fewer the tabs the better. I prefer to keep it under 5 open tabs at a time.

Ah I see what you mean. However I think this is not an issue but even a welcome feature. If you are trying to save a file in a very crowded location, that search feature is very useful. It makes sense to me that you have to click on the input for the name.

You can also type Ctrl + L to focus the filename input.

@Aravisian I was just checking Tobias Bernard blog as suggested and I'm curious if you happen to have a direct link where he talks about these issues? Don't bother yourself if you don't, it's just curiosity.

I really should be organized and save each link because I know I will likely reference them later... But I never remember to do it at the time.
But as a Quick Google Search:

I currently do not have time to devote a search to it all - I am in class, still.


Also not to bombard you but I was curious why you use Zorin over MX Linux now? MX Linux seems to hit on a lot of things that (From what I understand about you) are important to you

Zorin OS, during my tests, showed a unique factor:
If I really ramp up activity, the CPU performance on Zorin OS will briefly spike high, then drop back down.
On MX Linux, it goes up and stays there.

I admit a very slight preference for how I can install things in terminal with Zorin over MX Linux.

And there are other small tweaks Zorin OS does that I really appreciate: ZorinGroup changes very little that ends up outside of user control. They keep things customized to be Zorin OS in a way that I can easily change as I see fit. (This is something Mint does Not Do and I really resist that.)
MX Linux has its Good, though, for example a simpler Init system, avoiding SystemD, but having a Shim for SystemD so that the user has the choice for themselves rather than being forced into SystemD or Forced into avoiding it.

So it really is a VERY close thing and that CPU performance was the deciding factor. Had it not been for that, the SystemD issue would have put MX Linux on top and I remain very strong in supportive words of MX Linux to this day.
With Gnome changing things so drastically in GTK4, I may end up moving to MX Linux if Zorin is too deeply affected by GTK4.
On my current new machine, that processor usage should be great on either anyway.

There is also a certain loyalty to the ZorinGroups excellent work; though Jerry over at MX Linux has most certainly earned my respect, too.

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I would potentially distinguish between Desktop and Laptop computers. To be more up to date I run Xubuntu on an old Desktop and Linux Mint on my brand new Laptop. But I could also consider Ubuntu on the Laptop to make full use of gesture support, fingerprint sensor etc. My biggest problem with Zorin OS is that I cannot get one of my printer running. But most probably I am going back to Zorin as soon it's built on a Ubuntu 22.04 basis.

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