3 posts were split to a new topic: Addressing StarTreker and Moderation
You my friend...backed me up without knowing. 
Edited in content from other thread per Elegant_Emperors request:
Edited again...This time by the Emperor himself...Moved the post in a more suitable place.
That was a long post...took time to read and reflect after something else that you don't know about...
You are going with the words again...
By pre-configured I meant that Gnome reduces or halves the work in setting up their OS..Weather you like it or not depends upon you, I certainly do because I am person of the current generation whom the older ones consider "lazy and spoon-fed".
Microsoft is..not sure about GNOME...If Microsoft did not exist today, people would not even want to switch on their computer..Why?
Because they provide everything on your doorstep. I am not saying Microsoft is better than Linux, because both of them are good at what they seek to achieve. Maybe if we did not have to open the terminal and sudo blah blah blah for basically everything I would say Linux has won the competition. However, this does not mean that this will remain forever thanks to the recent developments being made in the Linux factory".
I don't know about others...I have not used any of the words polished, modern, smooth or sleek so far.
I don't see how...I find everything else equally "modern" to that of gnome...And even if something is considered outdated, it does not mean that it should not be used anymore...If something is called modern, sleek or smooth then that does not show fear but appreciation. If the consumers appreciate GNOME DE then what is bugging you?..No one is calling XFCE or KDE or Cinnamon outdated, dull or rough...
I find other DEs equally modern and smooth but if that isn't reflected by the consumers then it is because they did not find anything modern or sleek or smooth in their desktop environment...
I did not find anything difficult to understand thanks to Zorin OS and everyone in this forum and also because I am a quick learner but you made a valid point and it makes sense.."People don't want to change because they dislike change." (I will note that down in my quote diary)...
I also like to have fun...and who doesn't. But that does not mean people should for get their work and fiddle with their newly discovered Operating System all the time and Gnome aims to remove that..GNOME makes sure that people can get their work done in Linux without much hassle and configuration.
And here I thought you want to simply know what others feel...Had I known it was a debate I would not have participated.
At first I thought this thread was created because of my reply to @Bourne in my tutorial page on How to install various DEs? because just after 30 minutes of posting that reply you created a thred on "Why I hate GNOME and you should too." . Later on when others posted their opinions and beliefs I thought you just wanted to know what others feel..How was I supposed to know that you were challenging my reasoning and wanted to debate?
Noting that quote too.. 
That did not happen to me....ever. I guess it is a bug or it was added in a recent update.
NO ONE..I mean NO ONE! has called other DEs ugly..Gnome was only called more beautiful.. I don't really want to argue on user-friendliness and polish (snake-oil?? 
LMAO) anymore.
Where did you hear that?? I did not hear anything like that..Show me where it says that..I love orchis theme. If they remove it, then they will leave a sour taste in my mouth.
I never denied that GNOME breaks extensions and prevents theming but why are you stuck with it...GNOME still works without theming atleast you can apply a wallpaper and every distro provide their own bit of themes and changes to the OS so for those people who love customising, they can avoid using GNOME and if they feel the need to convert a dock to dash or getting the superkey to open the app menu instead and other such reasons are just too picky and cause unnecessary tantrums. I agree that users who come to Linux come mostly for the privacy and freedom and customisation but the way Linux shows itself will not attract many people. I am user who does not care if Microsoft or Facebook or Google is selling away my data because it is not hurting me. As long as I can get my work done and sleep well with the (no matter how much hopeless) Windows OS lying around, why should I cry? After all I don't care about customisation and freedom (from what? or is it freedom of choice? Linux seems to have blundered with that also).
At the end of the day I am come to you not as a Microsoft salesman or a "Gnome-hired-me guy"; neither do I say "Microsoft sucks..Linux rocks" or "Leave Gnome Today!"
I am a guy with free will and always decide independently. I don't let others decide for me. I always read other's perspective of seeing things carefully and decide for myself weather 'what they are saying is correct and should I change my mind'.
I am ending my argument and would not contribute to this debate further....
Little reading this hot discussion.
I found in this discussion two sides where with one i have feelings talking about how good is gnome or xfce from design sides for users. Another sides i saw a xfce or design for people where desktop is very flexible to configuration for users how they liked. What I can sayed our forum is little small to get statistic how many people using Gnome or XFCE to them preferences. Here mostly i saw like "Zeus with Atena" (old mythology gods) trying proof something what is like football in a game. Why? Because we don't know what will be example next 6 months with Gnome or XFCE. It could be shapes the way where today our words can be changed because this is linux and he is evolved on many years. Canonical like a Gnome trying to get bigger piece from a cake. We know linux is used for every server unit also every hardware router,tv and any hardware electronics and there isn't a design DE but working very good.
What I remember I vote for xfce because i have a old pc. I tested a GNOME and yes sometimes some package in store working and someone not working about snap or flat if i have choice deb then mostly i installing a deb if i can.
Linux Torvalds also sayed to much diffrents way is difficult to create a Desktop Linux for users example like a chromebook or android. In Zorin one from many distributions is very diffrent from another is only two people.
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@Kedric Yes that is true everyone have a choice which DE want choice, that doesn't mean someone sayed this is not good. It depends for preferences people what they liked. Some a man's liked a woman with a one colour from many diffrent a colour hairs. That means he don't like another womans because they have a diffrent a colour but they are still a woman.
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Yes! It's all about personal preference. I can't even read the whole post, it's so long.
When First Zorin out it was Gnome. I cannot complain it is bad. Besides if you using any linux distribution you need always using a terminal where everywhere is the same. Depends on drivers and software what you need to installing. That for daily users it is ok if he don't to much trying changing many options what could be changing,remove some package from original Zorin distribution. We have on this forum some topic where people going some guide lost desktop or any data files. Besides what is it the problem when you login you can install any DE what you liked. I saw last time in customization good guide
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I think you angered Athena (the Goddess of knowledge, wisdom and education) for getting her name's spelling wrong. 
Me too!
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Well that is sometimes mistakes i mean Athena and Zeus but a battle and some words can gived a humoristic. So Gnome looks like more modern DE but XFCE could be a poor on start but can easier changing DE to another. Example last time when I using Cinnamon what is a fork Gnome. Fedora using Gnome 41.2
I reading Zorin is a release version update not a rolling like arch what gived you newest updates but not checked with security what could gived you unstable that why ubuntu is stable edition.
Everyone from you can gived answear why I choice Zorin? Many distribution linux have a Gnome DE. I am example with Zorin because i have proof how it evolved from lower version cd plate before 15.3 ultimate. Many youtubers sayed the Zorin is best distro 2021.
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I’m counting on you when the “summarize this topic” button appears at the top of the thread.
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I think Gnome is a great DE! I don't understand why you guys say Gnome is not polished, it really is. Gnome is very beautiful and clean design, even though it's not the most flexible. It looks amazing and a lot of people use it.
Arch Linux shows that most people in Arch use KDE, so KDE is more popular than Gnome in Arch I guess.
If KDE died (which will basically never happen, I will probably go to Gnome ngl.
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I have outlined exactly why repeatedly. Across several posts.
It is perfectly fine if a user prefers or enjoys Gnome. However, the issue that I raise in this thread is not about whether a user enjoys and uses Gnome.
It is about Gnome being Represented by many users in a certain way, even as many users belittle other D.E.'s by calling them Ugly or Outdated. This thread is not about gathering opinions about this, but rather, confronting that misrepresentation.
Many users say they like or prefer Gnome due to its simplicity. That is fine and if they prefer it, that is fine. However, many of us Linux users do not feel the need to give up control for simplicity and the problem becomes where your preferences are forced on ALL of us due to Gnomes control over the GTK (Gnu ToolKit).
GTK4 creates that same simplicity across ALL D.E.'s excepting KDE.
If you want no settings and simplicity, that is fine. You shouldn't enable it being forced on everyone else. It only makes fair sense that many of us should be able to address these heavy concerns without being misrepresented or belittled by others.
And for those that say this is disparaging to Zorin Core - it is Not: Evidenced by the sheer number of Gnome-Extensions that the ZorinGroup needed to include and tweak into Zorin Core to make it what it is today.
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Nor have you called it Ugly or Outdated. But a great many others do. This thread is not about you, but about a community as a whole, that words things in a particular way.
I agree with a great deal of your positions and statements on this. So please keep in mind that as I address the words of the community, it does not reflect solely on you.
Several of the members posting in this very thread have done so in other threads, including @Kedric .
Is gnome exclusive to Work Environments and Employers? In fact... I am pretty sure I already asked this question.
Do the many home users need to be treated as though their home machine is a workbench?
Most importantly, does the direction gnome is taking with the GTK (Toolkit) affect everyone (Excluding KDE which uses the Qt toolkit)? This is the most important question.
I would term this more as, I hope all readers will question their assumptions and examine the opinions for merit. It is not enough to just assume... with the direction things are taking, users must be educated and aware.
I cannot find any thread with that title.
You know... you say you believe others should voice their opinions... as long as it isn't me voicing mine, right?
I repeat (YET AGAIN) that the issue is NOT about people "hating" Gnome, but rather: The Direction Gnome Development is taking Afects us all.
And I, for one, would deeply appreciate it if you stopped with the shifting goal posts and red herrings.
You keep misdirecting the topic in order to align it to your own goals. Up to and including a massive misdirection in regards to another member and your personal attacks on that topic.
(In this, you can see clearly, yet again, that editorializing is not needed. I put forth the same repeated point, preferring no misdirection from others making personal accusations- That the direction of Gnome is changing the gnu toolkit that most other D.E.'s all use and is affecting ALL desktops, not just changing only Gnome.
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I keep seeing words "modern", "polished" related to a DE.
Well, Art Deco is considered by some to be a "modern" look.
"polished" shoes can shine and look good, but I have never had to wax a DE to get it to shine.
I think those two words are not best used to describe a DE, (IMO anyway).
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This discussion going to anywhere. Words and proof is like a science where someone gived experience. Then best conclusion is connect words with some examples photos to showing diffrents between gnome and xfce or another DE with describe.
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Epiphany Browser is a Gnome Application - a Web Browser aimed toward simplicity and Security.
It handles security quite well, though there is nothing in the application that will inform you of such or let you modify that.
As a themer, you would think I would love Epiphany Browser, because it follows the gtk theme I make for it exactly, unlike other browsers.
Yet, I do not. In fact, the opposite.
It has almost nothing in the way of settings.
It comes preconfigured and what you get is what you get and you can like it or like it.
Looking at other Popular Preferred browsers, we will find Firefox, Chromium, Brave and Vivaldi.
Not only do these work as preconfigured, they come with a literal ton of settings. Perusing the Support forums for any of those browsers, you see User Requests For More Settings. More Control.
Why does this odd disparity exist? Why do we see, in evidence, that users clamor for more settings and that the preference is geared toward more settings?
I mean... I do not know about you but... I do not know all the settings in any of the above browsers and I have used them all. There are so many of them. And you can even enable "Experimental" on most of those browsers for even more settings to control.
By the logic outlined across many posts in this thread... Epiphany Browser should rank among the Top Browsers. Especially among Gnome users.
Yet, it ranks Dead Last, not even falling into its own category, simply being listed in with other small browsers under "Other"
This disparity and its distinction are important.
Across this forum, I have often praised Zorin OS Core, particularly Zorin OS 16 Core as it added so many missing features and user ability. It is a mark of Zorin OS that the OS aims to make things easy, not necessary to make things Simple.
Where Gnome, at its base, is quite featureless and lacking in user control, Zorin OS goes to great lengths restoring user control, using multiple Gnome Extensions to restore right click functionality with the Panel (Taskbar) and Desktop icons - as well as some enjoyable fun like Magic Lamp effect and Wobbly Windows. These are easy to use... But not the hallmark of Simplicity.
Clearly, anyone who claims I am knocking Zorin OS Core is making a false statement.
Using Zorin OS Core, Zorin OS Lite, or using Brave Browser, Vivaldi Browser, Chromium... they all attest to users desire for Control over their Own usage and machine.
In the future, ZorinGroup must address having to request permission from Gnome (as libadwaita currently stands) along with POP_OS, Mint, and other distros, get a sign-off for using their own distro Theme.
This is not the case, now... But it is the case for the future. Unless... We, the users, are willing to speak up, be aware of this direction - and Hold Gnome Accountable for FOSS and Freedom.
Misdirection by belittling one who voices this will change nothing - and we all, not just Gnome Desktop users, will be affected.
The personal attacks and misdirection need to stop. The topic is valid. Addressing the question as to whether or not it is user-friendly to take these directions of more removals of user control is valid. It is relatable that any and all members of a discussion forum can and should voice their concerns over such a direction, since those users will be impacted even if not using Gnome.
And Core and Gnome users will be affected as Gnome moves forward to eliminate the Gnome-Extensions that so many users need and rely on and... enjoy.
How long must we wait before this happens and the users finally address this? In the meantime, villianizing anyone who dares speak up now?
I remember about gnome they are not interesting implementation a people ideas. They are going to closing they rules. It was somewhere here before topic about gnome, maybe moderators can find and put that here.
There are many and I linked to one of them in post #52.
But a net-search over reddit, ubuntu-forums and anywhere else, covering many years even... will yield the same. It's not a matter of relayed opinion: The Gnome Developers Themselves have voiced their position clearly on message boards saying that Gnome does not consider User Requests, repeatedly. It's an easy search and the record stands in print.
Just as pointing out the evidence that gnome applications follow different structure - rounded all four corners on some apps, but not on others, titlebars mismatched and differently sized (I mean, you can find hundreds of threads on forums all over the web seeking answers to this), Gnome-Boxes app stretching header separator margins while Nautilus does not stretch them - stands by its own merit, viewable and testable independently by anyone. Gnome and Gnome-based Desktops are the only desktops that do this. No other desktops (Including MS Windows) have these unpolished artifacts. None of them.
Merit and Evidence... Works much better than attacking the poster with personal accusations.
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Yes! That's is true. I reading many news about that and I can agree.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D1-QazWIUcQs&ved=2ahUKEwiNw6e4mpT1AhUHvYsKHSUxCt4QwqsBegQIEhAB&usg=AOvVaw2KiHgGUrzVJHHMEymKDT4r about Epiphany but Vivaldi have more settings and is more friendly for users. Brave using tor like a some version Firefox.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://windowsreport.com/epiphany-browser/&ved=2ahUKEwit5ITDnJT1AhX7AxAIHW1DBKcQFnoECAQQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2EcEXxe6AYcGMMJKLuwQWE
All D.E.'s come pre-confgured. It means the same exact thing as what you said you mean by it. As in, boot up and start using.
So, please explain how Gnome is different- how does it halve the set up that a user must make? Details. Show screenshots if you like. Demonstrate any merit to this claim.
You are saying that other desktops require as much as Twice as Much configuring for the average user just to be used.
On other D.E.'s like Mate, XFCE, Cinnamon, LXQT...
What requires configuring in order to use the desktop and how does Gnome handle this differently, to as much as Half as much configuring being necessary to use the desktop?
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