Making it easier to adapt to Zorin Os

That is exactly my take.
I once installed Macbuntu for the former Mac user but he could not take it. He asked me to revert his desktop back to the original Ubuntu.

According to him, the most problematic part is that while everything looks like Mac, it does not work like Mac.

Too much look-alike inhibits the learning process since our brain muscle memory kicks in.

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Hello:
I don't know if I have explained myself well.
I've been using Gnu Linux (Linux Mint and Zorin Os, mainly) for 5 years. I am fully aware that it is a different operating system than Windows and that it requires a learning process to use it. I also agree that it is not a Windows clone, nor do I pretend it to be (even some distributions that imitate Windows too much, such as Linuxfx, make me reject it).
The only thing I tried to say was the possibility of making it easier for newcomers to easily incorporate those proprietary drivers and sources, necessary for the proper functioning of GNU Linux without having to resort to the terminal or Synaptic. I have no doubt that these methods are completely valid and easy to use when you know how. I have only tried to put myself in the situation of newcomers, with very basic knowledge, for whom, at first, this system may seem very complicated.
To tell the truth I was a bit surprised by some of the expressions used in my comments. I didn't think that what I said was such a big deal.
Regards

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I thought most of us were generally agreeing with you that ZorinOS should not and is not a Windows Clone. Unless you misunderstood our posts :thinking:

I am one of those people. I only recently migrated from many years of Windows, to Linux, via Zorin OS.
This is something that I try to keep to the front of my mind as I associate with newcomers to this day; That I Understand How It Feels.
You have been using Linux for far longer than I have.

What I said just above applies to this.
Remembering and knowing how it feels to be lost and confused by a new operating system is essential to not just relating to another person, but to also examining the new system.
I understand what it feels like to want Linux to be more like Windows when you are learning it. I understand what it feels like to want it to be easier.
And since this is recent enough; I understand how I went too far, not long ago, in pushing for Zorin to be more Windows-Like ( @swarfendor437 probably remembers that vividly...)

I imagine that Facebook probably did not intend to create a Nation Divided when they thought they had a good idea about Interest-driven marketing.
Opposition to an idea does not mean it was a Big Deal.
And giving other points of view does not make a person wrong; it allows for a thorough and careful examination of the Merits of Ideas.
I think you make a very valid point about Drivers.
On Linux, many manufacturers are limited in their support of Linux and Linux cannot change that; only public pressure on those manufacturers can.
But it is also perfectly OK for users to be exposed to some installation pressures sometimes. It is good practice and slower introduction than say, Gentoo would be.

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The fundamental problem is that Windows users have been suckled on a GUI system when the power lies in the command shell. People like things to be easy. Just like getting into a car and expecting it to behave the same all the time. "Mary, I noticed the fuel consumption is increasing on the car!" "When was the last time you checked the tire pressures Joe? Have you checked the oil level too lately?"
Whilst many of us no longer need to #Get out and get under, to fix the automobile# (He'd Have To Get Under, Get Out And Get Under (To Fix Up His Automobile) | Peacherine Ragtime Orch. - YouTube) we should make the basic effort to try and understand how a system works. I remember a bit of a false debate as to which is better, GUI or Bash. One has to ask oneself how users are introduced to computers - if it is too hard they turn away (like me) with my experience as a Trade Union official at the local branch, staring at the letter C followed by a colon and oblique stroke and a flashing cursor - 20 minutes later I had the courage to ask a member of staff how to boot Windows 3.1 "Just type in Win 3.1" was the reply - that's when I headed off to Amiga dreamland when I purchased my Amiga 1500. After a few years of use I started to play with the Amiga Shell (CLI) and was just getting proficient at it when Windows 95 came along - I was off with stress at the time as the organisation had been restructured and all my dedicated clerks had been removed from their support role to me. I wrote commands for an Excel Spreadsheet that would have been an absolute boon but the IT Department had never any intention of providing IT equipment to the service I was engaged in! But that's another story!

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This is also why if they are hesitant moving over to GNU/Linux, to consider investing in Linux specific hardware as Zorin promotes on their main page. For those with Desktops I would highly recommend https://www.thinkpenguin.com/ to look at hardware that is known to work with GNU/Linux Operating Systems.

What makes people uncomfortable with Linux, whether it was in Zorin, Mint, Arch, Antix whatever it is, is the usage of terminal since the "common user" doesn't know the terminal. That is also the convenience of Windows, no use of terminal.

Given that part, should we say that "we should not do anything in terminal and just right click install?" just as usual in windows? Oh not to mention, should we take out the "password" whenever we are installing or changing anything "as common user doesn't like remembering passwords"?

Then, If we change this two basic things that you can see in ALL LINUX, what makes Zorin OS, Linux? Or you want Zorin OS to be another Windows?

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I wonder with the propriety drivers.

Come to think about it, I don't have problems with GPU drivers. Is that Intel is much more open with this than NVIDIA or what? Cause I see lot of NVIDIA problems.

My Veikk driver that I install for my graphic tablet, isn't a problem because this company really try its hardest to be compatible in many platform.

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Actually we see more and more Radeon issue here in this forum.
NVidia could be problematic, but quite often we can find a solution. But for Radeon.... Since it is supposed to be supported in the kernel, it can be difficult to pin point the issue.

The worst combination I saw was AMD CPU integrated Radeon + NVidia card. Users get quite frustrated and some of them even become aggressive and abusive to the volunteers. I saw this happened more than once.

Be earnest with you, I am now very reluctant to get involved in threads related to AMD GPU issues.

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Just one more point, when computers were just green screens with text, virus and malware attacks were not possible, only with the advent of GUI systems made malware and viruses possible (and I'm excluding MS-DOS in terms of virus free, which was a product called Quick and Dirty DOS that MS acquired). Even Amigas had virus attacks. With identity theft on the increase it would be foolhardy to not use passwords. Here in the UK the average cost of getting your ID back if it is stolen is £28,000.

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Ouch :roll_eyes:

We rent a server and have a control over our mail server.
It has a very strict Spam filter I personally manage.
Very few spams could evade it and the most malicious ones (virus/macros attached) would never make it.

Of course it comes with a risk of false positives and fine adjustment is a must.

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I don't know if I have been clear or if I am being taken out of context.
At no time have I said to dispense with the terminal, but to present an optional way that may be more friendly to the one coming from Windows. I remember the first time I was shown Ubuntu it was not particularly appealing to see my partner entering code into a terminal.
I think some people either misunderstood me about what I was saying or simply overreacted. I have been in this world for 5 years (mainly Zorin Os and Linux Mint) and I am not at all sorry, on the contrary, I am very happy and satisfied with Gnu Linux. However, we must be aware that operating systems must evolve in such a way that they become more and more easy to use for the common user.
Regards

There have been many users on the forum who have noted that they never use the terminal. It is possible to do so.
However, it is not advisable. Certainly, you do not suggest doing away with the terminal.
I understand... all too well, how suggesting an improvement in an area can lead to responses suggesting you hate that area. Your clarity is noteworthy. :slight_smile:

I would like you to please consider the following:

When something is made easier for people, there may be an upper limit as to how easy you can make it. Eventually, you reach that limit.
If you make it so easy that they are left stranded and hopeless when something goes wrong, then you have actually failed them.
Being easy must be balanced against being effective. Making something more and more easy until it is too easy makes it less and less effective.
Windows users are already conditioned to this.
I believe that our best purpose is in helping them to undo that conditioning, rather than to further it.

To this end, we have provided a great deal of help for the terminal on this forum:

I remember that my own reaction was one of fear and trepidation of the terminal, as well.
Yet, I am now one of its strongest advocates.

It may be better to have things easy, but not too easy. Enough pressure to push a person into expanding their horizons and enjoying their accomplishments.:slight_smile:

EDIT:
Crosslink:

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AS for me being "new" to Linux, (i'm not yet 1 month here), Linux Mint and Zorin OS already too easy to adapt to. That's why my question is how much more easy you want it to be for "us" beginners.

You cannot please everyone for any suggestive solution for this term "easy" cause not everyone have the same definition of easy when it comes to computer.

For example, if my mother use this. Even you make it a clone of windows, she will throw this to garbage. Why? She isn't familiar with anything around. The word "start" in the menu doesn't exist which is she was familiar of, the Microsoft Word isn't here. etc. But if my father use this one, just introduce to him about the buttons, the set up etc his already fine. Difference? "Adaptability". Not every user can easily adapt to changes. There are user wherein when they know something change, they already stuck with "I don't know how to use this." So, pleasing every new beginner with making this easy for each and every beginner, I don't know how much easy you will suggest to please every beginner. Don't forget, whatever developers do, there will always a complain.

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It seems to me that it continues to be exaggerated.
It is obvious that every operating system requires, for everyone, to a greater or lesser degree, a process of adaptability.
It is also obvious that it is impossible to satisfy everyone.
I keep being taken out of context.
I have only pointed out the possibility of facilitating a little more the first steps of a user coming from Windows, whose knowledge corresponds to a basic level.
At no time did I ever suggest the need to eliminate the terminal, nor to create a Windows clone, nor that no effort is required to start using a new operating system.
One of the aspects that I have appreciated of this forum, so far, is the understanding, respect and tolerance towards opinions that may differ from others. I have seen some forums that, for a few words, you get a lot of attacks.
Hopefully the tenor of the exchanges of opinions will not change.

I will go back to this one. And again, I'm also a new comer with Linux and seems your 5 years ahead of me here.

As someone who stop doing programming because of complicated clients/boss, question to make clear of every suggestion:

Do you suggest Microsoft Fonts, owned by Microsoft, to be pre installed in Linux? (Bdw, I didn't look for Microsoft fonts when I came here last 2 weeks? As long as I can type it doesn't bother. Though, for users who "have the needs for this fonts" for example those who do administrative task like PDS files, certificates, slideshow, etc, this might be in need if the format follows specific fonts. But, how many companies uses Linux as of this moment or willing to do so? Companies usually buy propriety for easy support.)

Next, install of propriety driver, indeed when it comes to GPU, it seems there's a lot of problem (I don't encounter one so sorry. Even I'm already 2 weeks here). DT in youtube says once that propriety drivers like those in printer mostly supports Windows and its very rare to find propriety driver that supports Linux. catching this statement, propriety supporting an open source, its super eye candy to see like how it was happening now with Blender 3D but it takes a lot of effort.

Installing in a graphical way, seems that's why snap, flathub, appimage etc comes out for Linux. The problem is that no matter what, propriety will not appear in those places because it is propriety.

This is what I want to understand. Do you want the propriety to be easily installed in Linux? Then, it is up to the propriety companies and Linux if they will have that kind of negotiation. Just like what happened with Blender. (Though I hope it will not be like Autodesk that after got the support of propriety, it become paid and never a free)

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Isn't that what all this is about in the first place? Growing as opposed to stagnant, Taking control of your movements instead of being controlled in your ventures. Looking back knowing you reached goals you set and knowledge to be able to share with others. Not being fearful of new and unaccustomed environments, but meeting those challenges head on with success in the end.

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Well said.
I am sure I would not be happy to stay in the kindergarten nor elementary school level even it would be super easy for me. Human need a challenge to expand their horizon.

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