Software Store does not show apt package updates

I'm running Zorin OS 16.1 Pro and I've removed snapd right after install.

I recently noticed that the 'Updates' tab in gnome-software only shows updates for my installed flatpak packages; it doesn't show any updates for any apt packages that I have. However, it seems that the software updater handles all the apt package updates, but not any flatpak updates.
This is extremely confusing, since gnome-software does list apt packages for you to install, and also shows apt-related settings under the 'software & updates' selection in its burger menu.
This is in contrast to Pop OS, which shows both flatpack and apt updates under the updates tab in gnome-software. I think this makes a lot more sense, since it groups all of your updates together on one page and helps obfuscate the two different package managers.

Is what I'm seeing on my Zorin install intended behavior? If so, why?

I do not believe that this is intended behavior.

And little that gnome-software does surprises me, anymore...

You might go to Software & Updates and ensure that "download from" is set to Main Server from the drop down menu.

killall gnome-software

Remove the cache for it located in ~/.cache/gnome-software

Then relaunch and test.

Yes i also have the same thing i thing it is because of instalation process that's why if you download anything from Linux terminal you have to update from there if you use store than from there

This didn't seem to fix the issue.

The updates you show in the updater are not applications that are installed manually through the Software Store...

That is true. Are you saying that gnome-software is supposed to only show updates for packages that I've manually installed? Why would packages be split across two update workflows? For some context, Pop OS shows all updates in gnome-software, it just groups up some of them as "System updates". I don't really care exactly which workflow is the one that does everything, but it feels confusing and inconvenient to have to open two separate windows to keep everything up to date.

I am not sure. I am not well versed in Gnome-Software.
The application has certain flaws that I find intolerable. I do not use it.
Gnome-Software is non-verbose. It does not relay any information on what it is doing. This means that you can uninstall some software from it and it will, without notification or warning, remove Necessary Dependencies including the Zorin OS Desktop itself.
And you have no idea that you are doomed until you reboot.

Let's face a reality... Many people just Click OK. They do not read a warning in a Pop Up, even. Providing one for the Software Store is likely an effort in futility.
So, what it boils down to is; making an application super easy, like Gnome-Software aims to do, is a poor direction. If you do not have to think or read or make a decision while installing or removing software - something had gone wrong. Such convenience and ease comes at a price... Often in the form of exploitation of that lack of awareness and thinking.
As I said above: Little that Gnome-Software does surprises me, anymore.
I do not ever use it; other than looking at or testing a user issue on this forum. I never use it for personal package management.
I advocate Synaptic... But I pretty much never use that, either.
I do all installs and removals from the terminal, where it is safe, verbose, vetted and still is quite easy.
A user must accept a certain amount of responsibility and Gnome-Software deprives the user of that.
Gnome-Software is included in Zorin OS because Zorin OS aims to provide a feeling of familiarity to users migrating to Linux from Windows. I see it, personally as a Stepping Stone.
It provides that familiarity, but should be used to ease the transition, not permanently relied upon.
I realize a lecture is not what you were looking for, much less a solution that suggests not using the provided application. But there may well be enough benefits for you to graduate away from Gnome-Software to something better; than to try to suss out why Gnome-Software is doing those things it does...

I don't necessarily disagree with your opinion on gnome-software and other graphical package managers, but if Zorn's goal is to provide a simple and easy to use experience aimed at users who aren't necessarily technically-minded or familiar with linux, it shouldn't expect people to use the command line. I'd argue that Zorin needs to invest in a better update experience. I guess in the meantime, I'll just use the command line.

It doesn't.
It provides Gnome-Software.

That said;
Perform a number of searches on how to change something in Windows- and the guide will quite often instruct the user to hit run then cmd. Don't even get me started on Regedit.
Using the terminal or command line is not really referenced more in Linux than Windows. It is just that in Windows, certain processes are handled differently allowing that for installations and removals you often do not use the command prompt. Which says nothing for the "Performed and illegal operation and must be shut down" or the "error ex000001x" stuff that is non-verbose and will leave the Windows user pulling out teeth trying to figure out what went wrong or what dependency is missing.

I quote myself:

Developmental steps.
Besides, a person does not need to be a computer programmer to run

sudo apt install program-name

Not a lot of technical expertise there.
And, the APT system is verbose, being much more informative than cmd, telling the user what went wrong, what is missing and even suggesting what command to run to even fix it (Find that on Windows...)

It is interesting how often a user will post a screenshot of terminal command gone awry where the image even shows the terminal recommending the user to run

sudo apt --fix-broken install

But the user asked on the forum, instead of running the command. They have been conditioned to Not Trust the Operating System by experiences with Windows. Or to believe that they are incapable and non-technical. This lack of confidence is far more pronounced than any lack of technical expertise.

I was trying say that the update experience Zorin currently provides sucks (requires two applications to do everything) and although using the command line is okay for me, it is not a good alternative for the intended audience of Zorin.

If you're trying to do something complex or non-standard, maybe. In recent memory, the only things I've done on the windows command line is setting up the linux subsystem and doing some stuff for dotnet programming. Both are not something that a normal user would do. Installing and updating programs on windows, however, has almost never required me to do anything cmd-related. Installations and updates are some of the most common and important things you need to do on a desktop, and I'd argue that it needs to be as user-friendly and fool-proof as possible.

For someone like you or me, you're right, this is very simple. But I think you'd be surprised how complex and alien this is to someone who doesn't know what they're doing. Most people don't understand the concept of packages, dependencies, conflicts, or even the command line. Try to imagine attempting to convince your mother (or any other not very technically literate person) to use Zorin instead of windows, and then telling them that they need to use the command line to fix something. I've done this, and in my experience, they'd switch back to windows the second they have to touch anything command-line related.

Have you seen that LTT video where they switch to Linux for a month? I'd like to highlight a moment around the 10 minute mark where Linus tries to install Steam and confidently removes half the OS.
The issue ended up being a misconfigured repo, but my point is that confidence is not the issue here. The people that come to the forum asking about simple apt issues are people who decided to take a chance on linux, who are willing to deal with some problems, and are willing to learn how to use the OS. These people are trying to make their way around a completely unfamiliar experience, and are afraid of messing something up. More importantly though, these people are the ones that had the patience to ask for help on their issue. What about the people who don't have that patience? What about the people who ran into that issue, but needed the computer for work the next morning? You don't hear from those people; they just switch back to windows.

What I'm trying to say here is that for Zorin to compete with windows, the update experience must be very good. Stepping stone or not, if a user needs to resort to the command line, Zorin loses. If a user needs to use two programs to update for an unclear technical reason, Zorin loses. If a user runs into any apt issue that isn't automatically fixed by the GUI, Zorin loses.
If other OSes make updates super easy, then Zorin must too.

You've already agreed that gnome-software sucks, but I hope you can see it needs to get better for Zorin and other linux desktops to succeed, and that the command line can't be the solution for most people.

I cannot agree with this statement as I find it to be a speculative assumption.
Really, as you browse the forums, you see that it is quite rare that New Users to Linux and to Zorin express major concerns about using the terminal. It does happen... but given a frame of reference of the rather large majority of new users that easily adapt right away and express no problems - it is highly suggestive that only a few people truly seem to feel that the terminal is either beyond their abilities or simply undesirable as they prefer GUI.
Far more often, members post expressing doubts about other people using the terminal.
You did above... Other members post their doubts in regards to family members or friends.
In such cases, it seems preferable to encourage confidence, than to agree with doubts. More often than not, people are more capable than they give themselves credit for when they fear their own or others abilities.
The intended target audience are those looking to transition from Windows To Linux.
Not those looking to recreate Windows on Linux. Because recreating it renders the entire effort pointless. Just use Windows.
However, Transitioning over means - learning the new system with more ease and support and encouragement than they might experience on say Gentoo or Arch.

Many normal changes or configurations lead to using the cmd prompt. I would consider myself a Normal Windows User when I was on Windows. Really, my computer usage and knowledge escalated sharply due to my transition to Linux. On Windows, I was quite bland. And as one, I used the cmd prompt often. I just did not ever use it for installations. But even simple things like resetting my net connection with ipconfig /release and ipconfig /renew-all

Really - Anecdote does not equal evidence. But I think my points have merit for consideration, if not for Convincing. Please note my other points, one of which follows this quote:

No... I agree with you. We all come across this... On Windows, Mac or Linux. We come across it here.
I will crosslink this thread:

This member got the Directory Name wrong, causing his problem. When you know, it is easy. But when you do not know... it seems so complicated. That perception is what makes all the difference.
I have noted that many people lean toward impatience and even... belittling others, even if unintentionally in such cases. Yet, there was a time when I and you and many others also did not know that the ~/.themes folder needed to be named appropriately. We all had to learn. And we did it...
The point is not to emulate Windows to the point that new users do not need to learn anything or think about something in a different way or experience a new way of performing an action. That act of learning expands horizons and develops the person.
You may be surprised by what a person who doesn't know what they are doing can do - once enabled to learn what they are doing and really shine. Even Grandmas and other stereotypes.
And for those members that simply are resistant that they cannot do it- I would argue it is due to their lack of belief in themselves. They may, ultimately, be better off on Windows.
Linux is not for everyone, even if available to everyone.

Oh, I have. :wink:
With the methodology I have alluded to above- with great success. All they need is Confidence but if they pick up on any lack of confidence, they will run with it. This is also true in Algebra class, Chemistry class, Geometry... physics... you get the idea. In the world, a person feeling daunted by learning doesn't get them out of learning. But in the Big Money Marketing of Microsoft, appealing to convenience is more financially rewarding than it is on Linux- TO Microsoft.
Whereas learning and self-development is more rewarding to the user on Linux.

And if you really wanna have some fun, get a 9 year old on Linux and watch the Explosions happen. It's inspiring.

That is not confidence - that is a person Not Reading The Terminal Output. It's a matter of failing to follow the directions.

Pure assumption. As I have already noted; the majority, by far, of users we actually observe and experience here adjust just fine. Many users can use Zorin without ever opening a terminal.
And pointing to an unknown assumed value of those that may or may not get frustrated and never post and return quietly to Windows is like pointing at Dragons. Without a statistically valid frame of reference to compare - there is no viable number to examine, in that. It is perfectly possible that it happens... But we do not know how much or often.

I do agree with you on these points. Yes, just as Mac and Windows both need improvement, Linux also has much that needs improvement.
I agree that Gnome-Software is a poor application in many regards and I also noted that due to my own formed opinion of it, I am no expert on that application. It is entirely possible that my own ignorance is at fault, here.
That my lack of knowledge to properly address the issue in this thread has led to the wrong conclusion... Rather than that Zorin or Linux is failing.

I definitely understand your points and your calm presentation of them. Even so, In spite of me typing a novel here... I hope that you will take my points into consideration, too.

  • While the Gnome-Software app may have a bit of a hitch with updates (possibly), the included GUI app Software & Updates covers all updates (generally) and it can also be automated with a couple button clicks.
  • That most users are observed to willingly and cheerfully adapt just fine - some users do indeed really resist the terminal but are a small minority. Of that portion, many come around to the terminal once they begin to trust themselves a bit. Leaving only a very few that refuse it consistently.
  • That checking our own selves before making conclusions about the other user can go a very long way toward uplifting them and enabling their truer capabilities. Many of our forum members are of the older generation, in their 70's and Rockin' Zorin OS. I have experienced new users get very Excited when they witness first hand the raw power of what the terminal can do, with Aptitude, powerlevel10k and other things, that they declare, "I could never do that on Windows!"

I am sure that in Windows, there are plenty of apps that other users would advise a user to replace with a different one.

This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.