Dump Zorin. Q&A has gone to h-e double hockey sticks.
Dump Zorin.
Someone asked me about this in Discord which led to a rather heated debate that I will address here on the forum publicly.
Critical feedback is still feedback and as a free and open forum for discourse, this should not be a place where only positive commentary about Zorin OS is allowed.
To disable critical feedback would hold the developers back, depriving them of necessary information to improve their product.
And there are important things to note: This posters history shows praise and positive feedback for Zorin OS, over a long period of time. What makes this post striking is a line has been crossed - a point of becoming fed up.
While the response will not make all the members jump ship; it allows fair open ended examination of the good, the bad and the ultimate direction we are heading in.
Feedback of this nature is stronger than a suggestion. It is something that the ZorinGroup can look at and say to themselves, "What can we do to ensure members do not feel this way?"
You cannot save everyone. Sadly though, Omnimaxus is not alone, by a long shot, in such frustration.
I am separating this out into its own thread, however.
I will admit, it feels like this latest edition does feel like QA has been... definitely reduced. While 17 definitely had issues with Wayland for example, it seems like a lot of people who had functional systems on 17 with Wayland are having issues with the same things on 18 (myself included).
On top of the samba issues (which is pretty major imo, that's definitely something a lot of windows users may be using) and a few others here and there (including Windows App support having issues, a major advertising point on their webpages)... it definitely gives off vibes that are less than stellar.
1 Like
They can, which is why there are moderators. I split this into a new thread.
A review of the members posts will reveal the many details they have voiced quite a lot. I agree with some, not all... The comment posted at the outset of this thread follows a long line of many.
The poster may wish to elucidate more, later. That can create discussion among clear-headed members that weigh the merit of ideas, not the traits of the posters.
An expectation was set that the next release would bring a better Wayland experience than 17.
Both of these are major for a distro like Zorin OS.
The Wine issues is due to the Wine Maintainers making an error. What actually surprises me is that it is still there.
Zorin OS 18 is new, but Ubuntu 24.04 is not so new.
I am confused as to why this has not been corrected in all this time.
2 Likes
I have mentioned a couple of times that I'm glad I have stayed with Z17.3 Core and not ventured to Z18 Core.
I use both Firefox and Thunderbird apps on different platforms. On Z17.3 I have both as .apt's, albeit Thunderbird version is not kept up-to-date, but both work.
The nasty actions of upstream Canonical folk pushing snaps above other choices is bad. But worse for users (like me) that specifically choose native apt sources for those apps, then to find that snap is installed instead of apt. That IMO is totally out of order.
I know Zorin devs have granted a solution to counter the Firefox apt>snap issue.
I await something similar from Zorin devs for Thunderbird.
As for Wayland 
.... the phrase "have you tried switching to X11" seems as popular here on the forum as "have you tried switching it off and on again"
3 Likes
There would be the Question how it behaves on Ubuntu directly. Or on Linux Mint for Example.
When it would be a Zorin-specific Issue, it might be depend on the used Wine Version? And then would be the Question: Would it be better to add the Wine Repo and use it directly from the Developer?
2 Likes
I'm on 17.3 and upgraded a newer kernel and to Wine 10, no issues so far.
Regarding the 18-release bandwaggon, version 17.2 was very polished, zero frictions, and the Brave/Firefox stuff wasn't an issue. I'm predicting, version 18.2 is going to be very polished of zero frictions, too.
This is true. Most initial releases have friction. Including Zorin OS.
One of what appealed Zorin OS to me was the minimal friction the initial releases bring.
Zorin OS 18 has brought the most friction I have seen.
Some of this, like Wine, is likely no fault of the ZorinGroup.
I am using Zorin OS 18, though modified by me... due to needing to know things in order to somewhat be helpful here.
But...
I admit, even modified, I am not as happy with it as with 17. Point releases notwithstanding.
The GTK4 inconsistencies are galling. two or three point releases are not only unlikely to change that, but more likely to make it worse.
1 Like
I am simply very disappointed that Zorin has not changed the direction in which it is developing. Here in the forum, the helpers are doing their best to enable Linux newbies to get started with a new operating system, and it is becoming more difficult with each Zorin version. Much of this is due to Ubuntu and Gnome, but some of it is simply unnecessary and could be easily changed. The same requests and suggestions have been repeatedly forwarded to the Zorin developers under the Feedback category, but almost none of them have been implemented, e.g., XOrg by default, clear separation of package formats, preference for apt over flatpak, etc., clearer steps how to use network share...
Installing browsers in a native package format that requires complicated terminal commands deters new users, as does the fact that recently, many browsers have been unable to open under Wayland.
Zorin advertises that it can revive old hardware, but provides RAM specifications that are completely unrealistic, causing many users with computers that have 4 GB of RAM to turn to the forum in frustration and then have to reinstall their system with Zorin Lite. This could easily be avoided by providing clearer information about Zorin Lite.
For me, Zorin 18 offers no added value compared to 17.
At certain times, it is almost impossible to cope with the volume of inquiries here.
2 Likes
You have been a force to be reckoned with, though. You set out to increase you knowledge and learning by teaching and helping. Not many do that.
Yes, the volume can be overwhelming at times and for certain Gnome issues, I just step back entirely.
There is a difference between tenaciously helping troubleshoot an issue and beating your head against the wall due to someone else's design choices.
You've done better than I have. I simply stepped back when Zorin 18 released and the forums got much busier. I've started poking my head in again where I can but
It's a clear step backward for me, so anything specific to Zorin 18 I just can't help with.
To me this release has felt more disheartening simply due to Gnome. At least prior, if you wanted to provide a solution to something, there would usually be some terminal commands that would work, or a workaround for a certain program to do X that it did before, it just works a bit different know, etc etc.
But more often than before the questions often result in an answer of "...well sorry, Gnome has decided that that functionality shouldn't exist anymore and they've gotten rid of it. Have you tried insert other entirely different thing?" This isn't even strictly down to the OS itself, the programs are getting more restrictive and cut back, and going from the older version to a newer one often leads configurations either not brought over or entirely impossible to bring over.
Tie that in with the reduced performance of Zorin 18 (for myself, and others), I've also been trying to find a suitable replacement. I don't really want to bother constantly fighting with Gnome over and over again. And I would stay with Zorin Lite, but seeing as it's being sunset, I want to get a solution in place sooner rather than later, so that I'm not stuck at the end with no viable alternative.
1 Like
Even with all these hiccups lately, I think just a few minor changes would do the trick for most issues:
- Default to native Debian packages, reverting Canonical's Snap shenanigans as aggressively as needed.
- Default to Xorg instead of Wayland.
A more complicated one would be offering both XFCE and Gnome options, and released at the same time. I don't know if Gnome will allow to even enable Xorg going forward, so perhaps that's the perfect excuse to maintain the Lite version of Zorin OS.
I don't think that's the excuse they're after. <_<
I suspect not 
Apologies for having played a hand in things getting a bit out of hand here. In any case, I have been putting off doing a mini-review of Zorin 18. I am back on Debian XFCE, and happy with it (generally). But with some of what you guys have said here, I'm glad to see I don't stand alone. My main beef, though, is that Zorin OS is also (in addition to being a free OS) a paid product (when buying the "Pro" version). With payment comes the general expectation that you're getting a polished product, not a half-baked product. Imagine you buy a car, and it comes out of the dealership with minor dings and dents. Would you be happy? Of course not. Same here. I feel like many of us (including the moderators here) have given the Zorin Group chance after chance to redeem themselves. But no. The developers have been like ostriches, to be honest. Putting their heads in the sand while users run into bug after bug is not okay at all. It's a violation of basic consumer trust. It goes against the unspoken compact consumers have with producers. You pay for a product; you expect a pain-free experience. I can't get any more simple than that. I know Zorin OS had like 300,000 downloads, but ... how many of these new (or continuing?) users went, "what the heck" when they ran into bugs like the Wi-Fi connection window abruptly appearing in the upper left screen instead of in the center screen (like how it did in Zorin 17)? How many of them went, "what the heck" when their newly set up web app kept popping up to the left side despite the centered windows option being turned on? How many of them went, "what the heck" when they found that some apps (like the Camera app) couldn't be removed via the Software Store? You get the idea. Anyway, I'm not gonna fork over $50 this time for Zorin OS. What's especially galling is that the developers are on a delayed schedule vis-a-vis Ubuntu's release cadence, and they had all this time to fix bugs and go through everything thoroughly, but did not, apparently. That's insulting to us users and potential paid customers. I cannot in good conscience subsidize that kind of effrontery. I'm happy to use Debian XFCE in the meantime. At least it works. Again, my apologies. Thank you.
1 Like
Exactly. They have not done anything in this regard.
You are correct. Yes, I may have been a bit "uncouth," I suppose, with a few responses of my own recently, but the point and sentiment still stands. And I want to say you are a treasure to this forum with your knowledge and moderation skills.
Thank you for pointing this out. Correct.
Agreed. At one point, I thought about suggesting that he become a moderator. Ha.
1 Like
Agreed.