For now that's true--it's primarily intended as an OS for handheld gaming devices. Valve's been fairly clear that it'd eventually return to desktops though. At that time, I'd probably evaluate it as a desktop OS, especially since it actually can have its immutability disabled with a single command.
1 Like
Immutability sounds dramatic, but macOS has moved the OS and core apps to a read-only (immutable) partition years ago and I don't think most people have even noticed.
The benefit in the Linux world (Bazzite, Vanilla OS etc.) ls that you can easily roll back the system to the last working version if some kernel or driver update doesn't work with your hardware. It's a bit like how Ubuntu offers previous kernel versions in the boot menu, just for the whole base system.
Edit1: I also think something with an a/b upgrade option, similar to Chrome OS, where a failed update just restores a completely different image/core OS install would be another great feature too include.
I'm not a developer, so I can't speak to how hard it is to alter Debian or Ubuntu; but as someone who was once a complete Linux newb, I wonder if an immutable Distro is a better base, as this Distro is meant to be the first Distro (and often final) distro for new users of Linux. Given some of the upset we've seen in other Corporate backed Distro's "recently", I can imagine why Zorin would want to move away from Canonical. To be clear, while I voted for Other, I think Debian is a good and similar enough choice that I would not blame the Dev team for rebasing to it. But if you're going to rebase, my first question would be "Whats best for the future new users". I think an immutable OS would be Linux on training wheels for the majority of new users.
Most of us remember the LTT debacle where Linus deleted his DE trying to install Steam. I did this loooong before Linus ever tried Linux, and I have a great deal of sympathy for new users who perform this blunder.
"They read and agreed" is not an excuse when we're trying to present a Distro as "newb" friendly. Especially with the opportunity to get a bunch of non technical users to switch as Win10 EoLs and standard, otherwise perfectly good hardware, faces either a new OS install or a landfill.
I don't want to drive the thread off topic, but... how? I'm not suggesting it didn't happen--I work in software and had someone on my team with good intentions make a batch file for build copying that included a del *.*, forgetting that batches run from the desktop use C:\Windows\System32 as their working directory. The result was disastrous for the one person who tried it before I caught the problem. But having installed Steam on Linux a few dozen times, I don't see how one kills their DE in the process, and I'm honestly curious.
Edit: Also, as an exception to what I said above about preferring software straight from the dev or publisher, when it comes to the newest of new users, myself included a year ago, "use what's in the repo" is good advice while they get their feet under them, and REALLY ought not to kill anyone's system.
1 Like
Honestly couldn't say "how" I did it. Was about a decade ago the last time I did it. I was a newb to Linux, installing and updating Steam. Steam or apt or my OS decided it wanted to remove something which would delete files required to run my DE. What were they?why did it happen?, no recollection of the reasons. Just remember the same warning he had and that I was upgrading/installing Steam.
1 Like
Fair enough; it's a lot easier to remember that something happened than the specifics.
It was an issue with how Pop!_OS integrated critical package as a dependency for Steam (and probably other packages). Trying to uninstall or re-install is what caused that issue. It was similar to trying to delete zorin-os-desktop in Zorin OS: you'd end up without the graphical component, and booting into an terminal prompt.
If you happen to know how to fix it, it's really easy... but of course I would also be scared that my PC borked itself for no reason.
For reference:
Back on topic: I would also like to try an immutable distribution. It's been in my to-do list for a while... but I think I would still vote for Debian anyway. Familiarity beats everything 
2 Likes
I'd recommend Bazzite as a starting point there. It's based on atomic Fedora, and while it doesn't meet my needs (see above about Proton VPN), it felt polished and easy to use, with a possible exception in that I don't find its installer intuitive. It's not terrible, just weird to me. Nonetheless, It's my main recommendation for anyone I think is too likely to break a traditional distribution, or just wants a non-Windows gaming rig (and doesn't demand latest drivers).
Bad dependencies are frustrating. Zorin-os-desktop depending on Pulseaudio is how I ended up uninstalling zorin-os-desktop, but weirdly I didn't lose the GUI; I only lost the settings menus. There's a thread around here somewhere about it.
When You want combine Debian and Immutable there would be Vanilla OS. This is immutable and uses Debian as Base.
I had Vanilla OS in mind when it still used Ubuntu, so it's been a while... Micro from OpenSUSE was the other one that I was looking forward to try out.
There's also Guix OS & NixOS. These are more advanced but I'd like to give them a try at some point. Definitely out of the scope for something like Zorin OS, though.
2 Likes
Yes, they changed that with Version 2.0 Orchid to Debian. From what I saw about this, I liked the (Post-)Installation Process because at some Point, You can individually set up what Applications You want install. I find that great. Oh, and I forgot: They use Gnome - but I'm not sure what Version at the Moment.
Voted for Debian. You should create another poll for desktop environments. 
1 Like
That was my Plan.
3 Likes
And now it is done. Feel free to vote and say Your Opinion:
1 Like
Similar to the question posed in your poll to change the desktop environment - I can't see a reason to change the base distro. What is your goal with these Polls?
Can you reason why a change from a system that has worked for a decade is necessary?
The Reason is already in the Beginning of my first Comment:
I personally like the Idea to use Debian as Base; that is all. On Ubuntu the increasing Snap Integration concerns me beneath other Things. So, I would think it is a good Idea to think about the What-if Point. What if the Zorin's would say at some Point that the Work on Ubuntu is too much and they would have to decide what they do.
Linux Mint for Example has prepared for this Scenario with LMDE as BackUp when it should come to a Point where the Work isn't it worth anymore.
1 Like
Okay, but why does it interest you?
I see you're very active in this forum, so you probably have a better grasp than me on the issues most (especially new) users face.
Do you think that changing the base of ZorinOS to Debian would solve issues? Do you think it would make work more manageable for the two developers? Do you think the average new user will benefit from the change from gnome to something else?
I'm not asking these questions in a rethorical manner, I am trying to understand your thinking.
To me, ZorinOS looks like the most promising Linux Distro regarding catching users, but I can't see much progress in the last few years. Zorin GRID is announced since at least 2020 and we don't even see an alpha version. The onboarding process could still use some love, so Issues like these or these don't occur.
With the amount that the developers interact with the community (very little as far as I can see) - when the community votes to change fundamental things in the project that require a massive effort - and basically amount to redoing much of the work (in the case of switching the desktop environment, not so much changing the distro, but that also creates issues because ubuntu's build systems are way better than debians') - what is the expected thing that you want the developers to take away from your polls?
"almost half of your community wants you to change the base distro!" - but why?
I think that having the users provide feedback is very important - but choosing what the feedback is is equally important.
I also think that the developers @AZorin and @zorink could provide more information on what their current or biggest struggles are so active members of the community like you @Ponce-De-Leon can better provide valuable input, instead of providing tech support for issues arising with ZorinOS to other users for free.
In the absence of communication from the developers, I invite you to think about the impact that your polls can have on the community as well and to ask questions that can help the developers prioritize and focus their energy towards making zorinos better.
And to the developers - It looks like you have too much work on your plate to interact with the community often - Why not enable valuable members of your community like @Ponce-De-Leon or @Aravisian to act as sort of community managers? (only if they'd be interested of course!) This would enable them to support the project by providing more informed answers to the community. For example - having some behind the scenes meetings with community leaders where they can provide you with feedback they noticed and at the same time get your thoughts about current issues and goings on.
1 Like
I expect nothing. I have the Feeling, You take these Votings a bit too serious. I made these only for collecting Point of Views on both Subjects and I was interested how other Users here see's that. That is the Reason why they are in the ''Chat about Zorin'' Category and not in the ''Feedback'' Category. These are not made with the Intention that the Dev's have to change Base or Desktop. It is a simple What-if Thing. What if the Dev's would come to a Point where they think that it is too hard to adjust and program the Base and/or the Desktop in their Way so that it is in the Way they want it to be? I hope, You understand now.
1 Like
Far too seriously, indeed. Is there a reason why you're being so aggressive about other people having an opinion different than your own, @Anuril?
1 Like
I think that @Anuril is pointing out that unvetted feedback, while applicable, may not have the impact that more focused and directed feedback would.
As I read the post, I am not reading "aggression" as much as "insistence."
I must point out that the ZorinGroup does read and follow the feedback provided with sometimes surprising results.
And what we speculate would be a major undertaking is not always. An example would be the discussion about Zorin OS being supported entirely on Zorin Universal Repositories, no longer being on the Ubuntu Base Repositories.
The forum is a community populated medium for discussion and troubleshooting, but it is not the center of development.
This allows the users to toss many ideas, even conflicting ones, on the table and see what sticks. That opens doors, rather than limits them.
2 Likes