X11 removed from Mutter/Gnome

Well... Hopefuly the nvidia drivers get good enough by the time Zorin 19 releases, or else I assume it's gonna be pretty problematic...

I'm assuming this would also affect the cinnamon desktop, since that uses Mutter if I remember right, but I don't know by how much now that they've been working on a wayland session for some time.

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Don't mutter the word too loud, they will hear you. Sorry, I had to, it just writes itself. :joy:

It does sound like they want to really push for the Wayland garbage, since Gnome is dropping X11 backend. Once I update to 18, I may have to stop upgrading into the future, if their going to pull that junk!


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The trouble is, you need to make sure that something really works, first.

I cannot find a reference, right now... But I recall something from the Linux Kernel mailing lists where Linus Torvalds stressed the fact that the end user is what matters. And when the "new" breaks the users experience, then "reverting is the correct action, right?"

What Gnome is doing is putting developers, specifically, Gnome Developers, first and the End User last.

Popular Articles bolster support, telling the end users over and over again that the medicine tastes good.
How often is it that we have members join, excited for the prospect of Wayland, talking about how much better and faster it will be? OR claiming to see differences; despite the fact that the differences in speed are far out of bounds of the human eye's ability to perceive it?
And Now...

We get constant threads where Wayland is causing problems. Lacking the needed functionality and features - and unable to patch it in.
The answer, of course, was to stuff X11 back in, with a server, running alongside Wayland which is double duty and completely defeats all the arguments the Pro-Wayland crowd extolled.

And as Gnome strips Mutter of its ability to handle X11 in the leading days... We are also seeing...
Users post problems that cannot be fixed on Wayland, but the fixes can no longer work on X11, either - because Gnome snipped it out of Mutter preemptively.

Microsoft is as controlling as Gnome is. But at least it is a lot more stable. At least it generally works.
The only reason many people are looking to GnuLinux now is not freedom, workflow and accessibility, customization, or control of the desktop, anymore.
It is Privacy.
How long will it be before Gnome starts eyeing our data? They have done every other thing MS has done, so far.

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Agreed on all points. Its really good to see, that you understand all the problems with what these dev's are doing. I totally believe there is an agenda behind all this, cause look at the evidence, it speaks for itself. But we are not so easily fooled, no sir!

Its good that we have these discussions, talking about it is the only way, to bring the knowledge out there, so that people know whats going on in the Linux world, so that everyone can make the best decisions, based on the facts available.

When knowledge is shared, everyone benefits. :slightly_smiling_face:


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I personally find this really problematic for many reasons simply because xorg can run mostly on any gpu and wayland doesn't fully support lets say too old or too new hardware...
I personally rely on xorg cause my gpu intel iris xe doesnt go well with wayland and having the choice completely gone is like asking for trouble

Hope zorin devs after version 18 retires in the future to dont update gnome to 49 or basically patch it so it can still work with xorg

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I would love to say that they would do this... but I find it highly unlikely. Not only would it be a fairly involved process off the hop, but Gnome would most likely make any sort of attempts at creating such patches... beyond difficult, to put it mildly. Just look at how difficult it is to do some mundane things. They would be livid at someone trying to implement something like X after they've clearly stated they want nothing to do with it and Gnome.

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And Gnome firmly believes that its opinions about the desktop should be forced onto end users.

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Interesting topic on Artix main page:

"GNOME Desktop Environment No Longer Supported

2025-09-26


Some of you have probably seen the blog post a few months ago about how GNOME is more strongly depending on systemd. The changes mentioned there have landed into the latest stable versions of the mentioned software (GNOME 49) and do affect us. In particular, the main culprit is the removal of the non-systemd fallback code in gnome-session. This makes it currently impossible to launch gnome-shell/mutter on a non-systemd system. A fairly straightforward patch of using elogind, like what was previously done, no longer works either.

Since we don't have the time or interest to write a new non-systemd codepath for gnome-session, this means that all support for gnome-based desktops has to be dropped. In particular, the affected packages would be gnome-session, gnome-shell, mutter, and gnome-settings-daemon. For now, the old versions are still in the repos but because there is so much intertwining between other gtk/gnome packages, there is no guarantee they actually work and will later be removed from our repos.

Standalone gnome applications will still continue to be packaged, but it is simply not feasible anymore to support gnome desktops without systemd.

Join the discussion on our forum and possibly change the fate of GNOME Desktop Environment in Artix Linux."

And on Plasma 6.4:

"Manual intervention required for Plasma 6.4

2025-06-22


DrKonqi shipped with Plasma 6.4 requires systemd and does not work without it.
Users are adviced to remove "drkonqi" package.

pacman -R drkonqi

"