Zorin 17.3 and Ubuntu

[Codemonger]

Recently switched to Ubuntu as I had a bug that was a little strange in Zorin ... Not very happy with Ubuntu - I'll have windows close randomly or tabs in Firefox etc. I don't know it just seems like a lot of weird issues crop up in linux in general.

The other thing I don't care for is their seems to be ten different updates every second day in my ubuntu which is LTS version. It seems very excessive.

Has Zorin ever thought of using Debian Base -- and going from there? instead of Ubuntu, or is it easier for ubuntu compatibility ... Also another thing I'd like to see in 17.3 - would be https for updates , and perhaps they can run regular updates through Zorin from one source. Maybe even have a curated server OS ...

Would like to jump back to Zorin.

I have a use case of maybe five different pieces of software - Limux seems to have so many weird hiccups - I can't stand microsoft stuff because its bloated to death and apple , which i've used becomes overly expensive and extremely tied in to their eco-system.

Any linux guru out their explain why linux has all sorts of nutty issues lol for the simplest of things?

[zenzen]

@Codemonger

Any linux guru out their explain why linux has all sorts of nutty issues lol for the simplest of things?

Depends on how you define "simplest of things"... I've seen pretty weird stuff happening on both MacOS and Windows, too.

Can you replicate any of the issues that you mention when using other Linux distributions? If so, that may be indicative of a hardware issue.
For example, when Linux is running very low on memory it will start killing processes randomly in order to preserve the overall system running. But Firefox spawns threads for each tab, which means that in order to kill a singular tab, it would've to kill the entire browser instance. Assuming that you are not visiting shady websites that load all sorts of junk like crypto miners when you visit them, that makes me think there's an issue with the memory stick. Random sectors of bad memory would explain programs crashing randomly.

But, anyway, without more details it's impossible to tell what happened.

@Codemonger

Also another thing I'd like to see in 17.3 - would be https for updates

If you're concerned about security, the built-in package manager already ensures that packages are cryptographically signed to avoid tampering.
I'm not saying that you shouldn't use HTTPS if you can, but as you complain about often updates this seems counter intuitive as this would make them slower.

@Codemonger

The other thing I don't care for is their seems to be ten different updates every second day in my ubuntu which is LTS version. It seems very excessive.

That will strictly depend on the amount and source of the software that you have installed. Flatpaks are much more up to date and thus require much more frequency of updates, for example.

[swarfendor437]

Well first off, it's GNU/Linux. GNU is the OS, Linux is the kernel that facilitates it to run. My personal take on things, based on historical comments, is that Red Hat had alwats wanted to become the Microsoft of the GNU/Linux world. Similarly, Mark Shuttleworth, the billionaire behind Canonical, appeared to me to be the Steve Jobs of the GNU/Linux world.
There have been calls over time that GNU/Linux cannot gain the same hold over the Desktop market as it has done over the server market because of the 'lack of consistency' which would be 'resolved' if there was one OS and one Desktop Environment. This would defeat the principle of Free Software, and more importantly choice. Firstly, let's not forget that the majority of hardware manufactured is for that other OS, and issues can mostly be assigned to that. That said Zorin 17 made the (to me) the bizarre choice of making Wayland the default Compositor over xorg. Early releases had flatpak versions of Firefox which made it hard to update. Again adding Flatpak and Snap adds additional problems as far as I am concerned, as I prefer .deb and APT and I always try to avoid distributions that rely solely on Wayland, Snap and/or flatpak. I also don't like App Images. Red Hat historically used it's power over other distributions to adopt systemd which is in my view, bloatware, and having run PCLinuxOS without it, system resources were minimal. That said I am impressed with Q4OS Plasma, which uses systemd but everything seems snappy. My current daily driver is PCLinuxOS Debian Plasma, cf. the main distro that uses .rpm/Mandrake packaging. I also detest Pulse Audio written by the same programmer who wrote systemd. I only discovered recently that Pulse Audio is the 'de facto' software used in automotive audio devices. So if you want to reduce your issues, the solution is to purchase dedicated GNU/Linux hardware. Apart from the goo ball that systemd creates, the co-ordinator of my local LUG advised me that having an OS with systemd is like giving your computer a barcode that anyone can read.

[Ponce-De-Leon]

What Ubuntu Version do You use? 22 LTS or 24 LTS?

@Codemonger

Any linux guru out their explain why linux has all sorts of nutty issues lol for the simplest of things?

What for things should this be? for what Usage?

@Codemonger

Has Zorin ever thought of using Debian Base -- and going from there?

I find this an interesting Idea, too (especially when i think about the newest Debian 13 News). But to change the whole Base isn't as simple as it might sound - even when Ubuntu is based on Debian. So, that would be tough Work.

The whole Update Situation: These Updates should be Security Updates and Bugfixes. Depending of what You use and how the Vulnerability Status is, it can be more or less. And to have the Security Update and be safe is better than it would come too late.

Because of https: It could be make, but with the Sources are Signing Keys in the System to make sure that the Source is really the Source that it should be.

[Codemonger]

I'm using Ubuntu 24.04.1 LTS -- it's not bad -- just some really odd quirks once in a while - I run a few computers - two have 32gb of ram and the other 24gb ram. I don't like resource hog OS's regardless of memory.

As far as HTTPS vs. cryptographic keys for packaging - I'm at a complete loss as to understand the connection - one is a transport protocol to hide the contents being delivered - while the other is for matching one source to another, and has nothing to do with transportation of data.

My understanding is http is and was used for legacy reasons because some old server only supported http ...

I don't visit any strange sites, download torrents or anything else - literally I have a use case that is limited enough where I contemplate running a windows server and os for desktop - I absolutely do not like the calling to mothership experience in windows out of the box. I don't need news, current weather, and a ton of other information part of my desktop - unless i decide i want that later. It's not for me.

I like Zorin over Ubuntu because I find it zippy and the desktop is fully functional. I do not like that it is based off of the older ubuntu repository -- I'm guessing 17.3 will change?

[Aravisian]

@Codemonger

I'm guessing 17.3 will change?

Point releases do not change the Base.

[Ponce-De-Leon]

@Codemonger

I'm guessing 17.3 will change?

No, the Base will not changed on a Point Release. that only changes with new Main Versions. So, Zorin 18 will have the newer Base. that should be released later this Year.

[aisajib]

I've been an Ubuntu fan since forever, but I must admit, I don't find it fast or snappy these days. I tried the latest LTS and non-LTS in both virtual machines and full installs, and I've come away unsatisfied. I truly don't understand why Ubuntu feels so heavy, unoptimized, and overall unpolished.

While I'm happy with Zorin OS and don't care that it's based on an older version of Ubuntu, I understand some people do have hardware and other issues that make them need to be on a later release. That may be the case for you. Since the general unhappiness you describe with Ubuntu matches mine, you may try (at least for the time being, until a new release of Zorin OS is here) Linux Mint, Fedora, or Fedora with KDE Plasma.

I've tried all of the above and have been more satisfied than the base Ubuntu.

[StarTreker]

Yes, I must admit that XFCE performance wise, is faster. XFCE is also more customisable out of the box without needing extensions added. Having said that, I found Zorin's version of Gnome easier to use, and all I needed was a few extensions to make it better for me, some of which already came with Zorin BTW.

But as it has been said here and I infact agree with, gnome is indeed resource heavy, and becomes slow overtime. After my computer runs for awhile, I get a noticeable every 1-second frame stutter, when watching videos online, (most noticeable in panning shots) or while dragging windows around on the desktop.

The only fix I ever found, was a temporary one, and that is to reload the desktop, using this command...

ALT F2 R

I've done multiple web searches online to find a fix to the frame stutter, but I never found a solid solution. I don't think anybody on Linux knows whats causing it or how to fix it permanently. But I can tell you this much, its got to be a Gnome or Ubuntu thing, cause I don't remember having this issue on XFCE Zorin OS Lite.

I will never deny how resource heavy Gnome is, and thats why Gnome is not perfect. I may like using it for the most part, but that doesn't mean its the best, absolutely not. I have screenshot evidence of its high usage.

That was taken just now!

Here is my system uptime in correlation to when that screenshot was just taken.

And here are the biggest memory offenders!

All these screenshots were taken just now, they are not old ones.

So what does this tell you? While I do appreciate parts of Gnome, its not the best performing out there, not by a long shot. If you have a high performing CPU/GPU like mine, and you have a good amount of RAM as well, Gnome is doable. Just be aware, you will have to restart your PC eventually, cause that RAM will keep filling up.

The last time I used Zorin OS Lite, I seem to remember it only using 1.5GB of RAM out of the box, and maybe up to 6GB on high usage applications, if even that! And the performance of LITE/XFCE was indeed faster. But the issue I had, was not being able to do certain things on Lite.

Its been years, so I can't remember exactly, but for some reason I couldn't get gaming to work for me on that OS. It was 4 years ago folks, can't expect me to remember exactly what it was as to the cause. And maybe whatever issue I had, has been fixed by now IDK. But I still have Lite on the other NVME internal drive, as a fallback incase I need.

Anyways, no OS is perfect folks, there is no such thing as perfect, heck, the universe isn't even perfect, you know the chaos that goes on out there, the universe is crazy, and beautiful too. At the end of the day, one has to choose the OS that is right for them.

If you have a low performance old computer, choose Lite, XFCE can breath new life into a 20 year old PC! But if you have a modern computer like mine or newer, with great performance, lots of RAM, no reason why Gnome/Ubuntu can't work for you in that case.

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[Codemonger]

@StarTreker

But I can tell you this much, its got to be a Gnome or Ubuntu thing, cause I don't remember having this issue on XFCE Zorin OS Lite.

I've tried Fedora etc. I didn't mind it except some basic functionality 'out of the box' I had to fight with it compared to Zorin - one reason I always liked Zorin, not a lot of fighting involved, low resources, features enabled OOB etc.

The other thing BRTFS is installed and like ZFS is a resource hog - my guess is that they are by default running compression in realtime and decompression for your realtime experience into memory and the memory is not tied to traditional cache which is why it burns a hole of death into your memory.

The other thing I notice with Fedora and Ubuntu is over use of processes - little excessive - although on my one machine with a fresh windows install it had 1800 threads running fresh hahahahaha. Someone could of mined 18 bitcoins fifteen years ago on this bootup.

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I don't mind using older repositories - for servers the centos / redhat linux's seem to run good without daily updates ...

Best machine I ever had running without calling 'the mothership' was a freebsd with xfce -- the whole time it ran for a few months, the network traffic never blipped an ounce. The memory footprint was unreal small, ran unbelievably fast. You could write novels on this thing without it randomly showing up online before it got to your publisher lol

Like back in the old days hahahaha - if anyone can remember when random things didn't need to communicate to the internet or wherever to keep the fabric of unreality in motion.

I'm not into ideologies of open / closed source stuff - leave that to the general crazy people who want to take down the man or whatever - I'm into what generally works' for simple things from a business perspective.

I've contemplated using windows server model across the board as a desktop but couldn't get the graphics drivers loaded for use with dual monitors -- bahahahaha -- silly stuff.

Keep it up Zorin.