I've tried KDE for a very brief moment on Neon, and personally didn't enjoy it as much as cinnamon.
Personally I feel almost all the DEs available does not align with what Zorin's goals are, other than the current gnome in ZorinOS 16 Core/Pro. Sure you can create sane defaults on KDE, Cinnamon & XFCE, but once users want to make simple changes, it gets really messy.
I may be wrong but i recall KDE exposes LOTS of settings to the user at granular levels. While cinnamon & xfce have menus all over the places. For eg, to change the look in cinnamon, u have Themes app & font selection app, and in xfce u have Appearance & Windows Manager. Why is there a need for two seperate GUIs to change appearance? Imo this requires learning, and hence goes against what ZorinOS tries to do: An alternative OS that does not need u to learn anything new.
Current Zorin Core settings is a very good implementation imo: Have all settings bundled under a single app. resembling iOS/Android style settings, and have a selection of limited choice for users to choose (like Zorin Appearance).
Sure we linux users love to customize stuffs to fit our needs. I also do download themes and apply them on my desktops. But we have to remember the targeted users: non-tech savy users who have no experience with Linux desktops.
With that in mind, I feel the best way forward (considering how gnome 41 will be a major roadblock for next iteration of zorin core) will be to modify xfce or cinnamon, hide all the settings to modify the DEs, and port the current settings apps to control the DEs. The default DEs setting apps should only be seen if users clicks on "Advanced Settings" or similar
) For example, in XFCE, the Settings Manager application will let you run Window Borders settings and Appearance settings, all from the same place. They can be used separately, by choosing the individual apps in the settings Category, as well. Zorin on Gnome does the same, by supplying Zorin Appearance as One Place to utilize different apps. It is no different.
) The aim of Zorin OS is not to make it so no one has to learn anything new. In fact, quite the contrary. It enables ease of learning, by adding familiarity. It is not a Windows Clone on Linux and cannot be - and setting those expectations is only setting a user up to feel disappointed.
If the settings manager exposes these 3 settings, then imo, the start menu should not show these apps when searched, but rather display the xfce settings app (similar to how in mint, when u search for task manager, system monitor shows up).
Also in the first place, why are there even three apps to change an appearance? There should only be one. If Windows Manager & Appearance are considered more granular way to change themes, then it should not be exposed so easily. Rather, Zorin Appearance should include an "advanced" option for these controls. Having all 3 exposed at once will only cause confusion for those who are not familiar.
Apologies for I recalled the quote incorrectly. It should be "Zorin OS is designed to be easy, so you don't need to learn anything to get started." However this does not change my opinion
I do not expect it to be windows, mac, iOS or Android. But I do expect advanced settings to be hidden behind a basic ones to reduce as much confusion as possible, as I believed ZorinOS is targeting a wide variety of users.
With that all said, these are at the end of the day, still an opinion, based on what I believed Zorin is trying to achieve. I may be wrong of course.
I actually think this states it quite well. Getting started is easier on Zorin OS.
Um... Two apps?
Gnome is no different. Gnome Shell is not the same as Gnome Desktop.
Gnome-shell uses a Gnome-Shell theme and the Desktop uses the GTK theme.
So you have two different applications to adjust them- But you are acorrect that from the User side, it appears as One App in Gnome-Tweaks or Zorin-appearance.
In XFCE, you have One App you can open - Settings Manager... OR you can open the individual app for Window manager settings or the Desktop Manager settings.
The only difference between the two, from a users perspective, is that XFCE includes the user choice, or option, of which application to open and Gnome does not.
In ZorinOS Lite imo its three: Appearance, Windows Manager & Zorin Appearance.
Sorry if I wasn't clear but yes, I'm mainly focusing on the user side. Perhaps stating application may be incorrect, and GUI may be the better term to use.
Also if I recall, ZorinOS Core does not comes with gnome tweaks. This makes Zorin-Appearance the only GUI to change themes, making changing themes a very clear way to do so, even though its just Zorin presets.
Yup, I feel choices do add confusions at times although in XFCE's case, having appearance & windows manager together may be a necessity instead, depending on the theme.
Maybe I have been focusing on the user's experience based on the defaults too much, I have no idea. But my philosophy is, choices adds confusions. Hence only the necessary choices should be exposed, and the others should be tucked under an advanced option.
I have never seen Zorin Appearance in Zorin OS Lite. That is an application only included in Zorin OS Core (or other versions of Gnome on Zorin.)
It can.
But we migrated from Windows to Linux for the sake of regaining User Control. This comes with choices.
Choices can be confusing. But if we were willing to sacrifice user control for the sake of never feeling confused by something new, We would have stayed on Windows.
"Just relax. We will take care of everything for you."
You may have a point. And perhaps some prefer this. But the way I have it figured, hiding and tucking away choices, controls, settings and options is far more confusing.
On this forum, we must often help people find the setting or option to change something they want to change. It's aggravating to many, not helpful.
And far too often, I must plop a terminal command for a gsettings tweak for them, because the menus and settings GUI lack those features, even though the settings can be accessed in dconf-editor.
I think it frustrates people, not comforts them; to know they cannot find their settings.
It is reasonably often that users come on the forum asking how to change something or configure it for their workflow, only to find that they cannot do so on Gnome, in spite of leaving MS Windows. Gnome sometimes comes across as more controlling than Windows, even.
That can leave a person feeling disappointed.
The main point is not to take away user control. Having too many "power" at once can be very difficult to control. Assisting new users with these controls in baby steps, and letting them get accustom to it is the main goal in my opinion.
The defaults should, in my opinion, always feel this way. But unlike windows or mac, they should always be able to change whatever they liked to their taste or workflow.
KDE does this really well - simple defaults that is really friendly to use. Only gripe is that they expect you to be a power user from the start if you decide to modify it.
In that case, we are kind of on two opposite sites. Perhaps a middle ground should be discussed (if ZorinOS devs decides to tackle this) to have the least compromise.
I agree with you on this. Not allowing users to change the settings, or purposefully making it difficult without any good reason, is just unnecessarily restricting users.
Coming back to KDE, I do feel they have done a great job with the defaults and amount of controls they have given to users. However, if it is meant to be newbie friendly, then there's alot of hand-holding required to get users accustomed to the huge amount of customizations.
Whether the huge amount of customizations is necessary or not, I do not have a strong opinion on it. But the ease of getting used to these new features, in my opinion, is the highest priority for any beginner friendly distros.
I've installed KDE on Zorin 16 and found it a step above the gnome version. Yes, there are a lot of customization features, yes it looks a lot more like win 10/11 and Mac, currently, than any other DE. Gnome was good but has been wreaking havoc with my system. I had cinnamon for a time and liked the win 7 feel of it. Xfce, though customizable, reminds me of win 95/98.... maybe 2k with the rounded windows.
Having KDE, all the options, the ability to run gtk and qt applications... it's great. I'm still going through the settings (this would take a serious customization to get it easy to deal with for windows refuges), but it's worth getting familiarized with the possibilities. The graphics are SO much better. It doesn't look like there will be any limitations in the future either, unlike gnome. It's worth a look.
This may be a lot of work to configure for zorin, but it's one of those things that is worth doing... so isn't easy.
If nothing else, it should be researched as a possibility.
I like the ambition. I really think this could be a Zorin 'spin-off' that will peek a lot of people's interest. Especially after Aravisian's poll. Would be good if there could be a separate forum choice under categories dedicated to 'KDE on Zorin', to see all the things people have done, problems, fixes, what have you.
With the talented people on here, I'm sure it'd be awesome. I keep debating to try it again myself...lol
Having used KDE for some time its clear to me now that KDE is the clear choice.
Something the windows like linux distros always get wrong is they skin some GUI to look like windows on the surface but it doesn't work like windows and lacks the details or functions of windows.
There is also the fact that gnome from news reports is looking to become more of a platform and more macos like, does it make sense to still be using this UI if so.
KDE does a great job running GTK apps in KDE, it looks like windows, it works like windows, it has near feature parity with windows unlike gnome which is very simple.
Zorins primary market are disillusioned windows users who like windows but not Microsoft, really KDE should be the default.
Valve knows this which is why their SteamOS 3 is going to be using KDE and that if its a hit will be the biggest linux PC system on the market.
KDE Plasma is by far my favorite at this time.(currently using Gnome on Pro) And with 8 themes to pick from I would be very happy if offered. My system has the resources to run it well so that is important in the decision process. I like colors and image quality along with performance. The higher the better for me.
** I will be giving XFCE a drive around the block, kick the tires, and listen to the radio while looking at the navigation screen. So one never knows as I understand this is the most creative version.
So.... While waiting for Lite to arrive, as if anyone one this forum didn't already know I've been waiting... I was doing some reading on different distro's, DE and came across Q40S. A lightweight Debian KDE OS (Not the trinity Version). So I installed on laptop (wiped out Feren which at this point has been running
s-l-o-w as a turtle the past 2,3 months) Haven't tweaked or really delved into it, but I find it nice so far. Has anyone else ever messed around or tried it?
I wanted to try Garuda Linux too...But does it have Light theme? I always see in the images that it is dark.
Please don't hate me for not liking dark themes...
I'm not a fan of arch but I do like how clean and sleek it looks.
Wonder why they would offer 14 editions. Isn't it easier just to install the different DE's to the existing one, just like we are trying right now with Zorin?
So one never knows as I understand this is the most creative version.
