Discontinuation of Zorin Os Lite

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There is much worth fighting for, and those that fight for our choices and freedoms are the ones you should thank instead of belittle. What world would you live in if everyone agreed "it is better to move on for your own well-being and for the well-being of members that choose to remain users". One without choices and freedom, a world of corporations that take whatever they want. One where abuses go unchallenged.

I would like to add a little clarity:

Whether or not Zorin OS provides a copy of XFCE4 does not in itself limit our choices. Any user can install XFCE or Cinnamon or Plasma... In fact, many of us have done so for years without any discontent.
A lack of Zorin OS Lite may mean a lack of new Zorin Lite themes, but the existing ones could still be used.

What we are looking at is a Line of choices that make a statement about the current state of GnuLinux.

This thread is about - Alternatives -

Alternatives can be important. It allows a freer market, user choices, competition and these add to higher quality, less monopolization and less restrictions. For how long will we have these alternatives as distros drop support for them?

A market that is dominated by one entity or monopoloy is problematic. It is difficult to hold one sole provider responsible or accountable.

By dropping public support for variety and diversity, the ZorinGroups decision makes a public statement.
Already, a post has been made that demonstrates that the reason a reader might think XFCE was discontinued was because it was unnecessary, broken or inferior.

As any distro drops support for our competitive and varied alternatives, this reduces the applicability of having our variety across GnuLinux as a whole.

It makes the statement that we do not need these choices, any more.
It makes a statement that One choice is Better.
It makes a statement that the diversity and choices are no longer relevant.

And as this happens - we lose these choices.
The ZorinGroup - as The Developers - are perceived as knowledgeable authority. And a choice they make or a preference that they show is perceived as knowledgeable and authoritative.

Let me give an example of how powerful this is and how it deeply affects us all.
When Debian first considered whether to adopt SystemD, the consensus was "no." But one of their top developers pushed very hard for it and in the end, they took it on his authority that it was better, resolved issues and was good.
Only, it turned out that he had never even tested SystemD or looked over the code.
One of the key SystemD developers - was a friend of his.
So he pushed for it. He took it on his friends authority, Debian took it on his authority, everyone else took it on Debians authority... "They must know what they are talking about..." and the simple reality was that they were pals and he never even tested it at all.

And now we are all stuck with SystemD and Pulseaudio sound and integrated system services bloating our Operating Systems.

I am fine with having SystemD as a choice. MXLinux lets you choose - Sysvinit or SystemD, take your pick. They do not choose for you.
I am not fine with Distro Developer asserting monopolization, dominance and restrictions.

Is Gnome now equal to XFCE in lightweight system resource usage? That's... new.
If a person is going to assert this, it would have to mean that Recent changes and developments in Gnome make this possible; which is so new as to not be trustworthy. And if a person is going to make these assertions, they must provide benchmarking evidence to back that up since the claim contradicts the mountains of existing evidence that say otherwise.
I do not feel that the ZorinGroup are the baddies. They are not the villains.
What I do feel is that they are leading us with leading words. I feel that my trust has been broken.
They openly and specifically said that they will never limit the Zorin OS users.
Then they make choices that apply limits the Zorin OS users.
Repeatedly.

We are being told, silently, what we want. What we should accept. What we should have on our computers. With action statements, not written ones.

I cannot ethically show support to a distro that fails to show support to the wider GnuLinux community. We need the support and help to preserve and protect our diversity and choices and freedoms because the Big Players disregard feedback and push their will onto us.

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Then the code a new desktop or new things will be doing from us a slaves with no choices the end user?
Like the opinion us is nothing a worth a penny.
Something like a food chain.

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It looks like that the Comment from @Frog is disappeared.

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I am not sure how the Zorin community became so angered by the developers discontinuing the Lite Xfce version? I agree perhaps a bit better communications would have been better but that is their call to make and a year seems like good advance notice. The current Zorin Lite 16.3 is still supported for 12 months giving users ample time to find another Xfce distribution or just adding the desktop to the current 17.1 Core/Pro/Education version. Seems like a lot of drama for something that happens in open source projects at some point. Change happens and sometimes not everyone can be made happy.

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I think you keep missing the point raised by many here. It wasn't WHAT they have done. It was HOW they have done it.

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I don’t want to add any fuel to the fire. Zorin 16.3 Lite Xfce is still good for 12 months. It is their distribution. They decide how to devote resources to make Zorin how they want it.

It is possible they decided that based on time available and donations received plus other factors we may not be aware of, they can’t support two desktops. This kind of thing is common in the open source world.

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Maybe if now all cost and price for everything go up it propably gived a cut cost on maintaining servers, working on two systems where xfce is a small % people.
That could be happens. Now everyone count a penny.
This is something like a the painter and the portrait he painted.
For some it may be a masterpiece and delight, but for others it may not exist.
If they decided that they no longer want to create the Zorin Lite distribution, ok, I will understand it, but without an explanation?
Why did they make this decision?
I mean, reading about the upcoming sunset doesn't mean anything to me. It's like selling someone a fairy tale about paradise.
We don't live in the Middle Ages these days.

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A bit better communication?

  • For a very long time, users have legitimately questioned the ZorinGroups lack of communication

  • For a very long time, users have legitimately questioned the ZorinGroups exceptional delays.

Zorin Core is worked on and released, then work started on Lite and it is released after, so reducing to just Core does not reduce the development time.
Zorin Grid was proposed four years ago. Two years ago, the ZorinGroup tentatively stated that they hoped to release it in 2022.
The Zorin Direct Upgrade option lagged behind for years. At no point did the ZorinGroup release any Roadmap, nor did the choose to update their User Base until heavily pressured to make a comment.
We have to push and beg and plead for tidbits of information.

These are valid and legitimate concerns for a user base to have and the users showed exceptional forgiveness and patience during years long waits.
This is not an act of cruelty by ungrateful wretches.

  • The straw that broke the camels back. It is the decision made that follows a series of ZorinGroup decisions that adds into user discontent.

Zorin 17 brought a lot of significant changes. It was a lot for the user base to assimilate. Many of these changes were of known contentious issues within the GnuLinux community as a whole. For example, the adoption of Wayland as a default and the promotion and replacement of Flatpak over APT. They are big deals, and after reeling from that, we got hit with, "Oh by the way, in a sideways announcement, we are dropping support for other desktops, too."

This does not mean that the user base should ever be expected to not voice discontent or protest a move made by the developers.
Remember that the developers only and sole reason for developing is to provide for the user base. The user base is not providing for the developers. We do not serve them, they serve us. Without a user base (customers), the developers have nothing.
Not everyone protests the decision. You don't. This does not mean that those that do are somehow wrong because you are not unhappy.

The ZorinGroup introduced the Lite edition in 2009 With Zorin OS 2, fifteen years ago. That is a decade and a half. If Zorin OS Lite was in itself, some kind of financial burden or time constraint, it would have been a problem a long time ago. Not after Zorin OS grew in popularity and revenue.

Importantly, when the ZorinGroup raised the price for Ultimate (later Pro), they doubled the price. They justified this decision based on Pro including Lite Pro.
Will the price of Pro be lowered to account for the lack of Lite Pro?

Zorin OS Lite was changed from LXDE to XFCE. There was no "drama."
Zorin OS Ultimate was changed to Zorin OS Pro. There was no "drama."
Zorin OS Pro stopped providing the Ultimate Games. There was no "drama."

What differentiates uhh... "drama" and reception is how significant a change is and how the users are affected. Are we to shut up and be silent when we are affected by decisions made for us and our behalf? Zorin OS is a project for the Users. They are not doing it for their health.
Why are we here? Shouldn't we all go back to Microsoft Windows, bow our heads and accept our lickings?
Let's just all do away with this GnuLinux foolishness and take our medicine.

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67

I agree that developers can make whatever decision they see fit about their project.
Notwithstanding the above, there is a minimum of respect for the community, which is what gives sustainability to the project.
It is true that there have been distributions whose developers have decided to make changes, however, they have done it in a transparent way, publishing in the main part of their web page the reasons that led them to make this decision. Here everything is different, half hidden; besides the arguments they give are not very convincing, the Gnome desktop is heavy, it does not compare with XFCE which is much lighter.
I have installed Zorin Os Core on an old laptop with limited resources and it barely runs, even though I have disabled all the inherent features, such as multitasking and cube.
I think it's more of a resource problem (you have to consider how long it took them to release the current version).
One of the things I have always criticized the Zorin brothers for is the lack of timely communication to their community. We never know when the new version will be released, what aspects it will include, etc.

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Developers technically are able to, just as you are technically able to make any decision in complete disregard of the law.

Realistically, however, decisions are limited to applicability. Developers must be
in touch with their user base with reasonable two way communication and their decisions are limited to ones that have a positive general agreement within the user base.

They cannot decide anything they want. Not if they want to maintain a good relationship with those that provide the means and support, anyway.

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@Aravisian Now I know lack of trust among the Zorin brothers.
Do you remember when I asked they leave a project Zorin or selling?
The answear was denied.
How can I believe in something if I'm not sure what might be true?
When words only exist on paper?
What can I expect in the future project ZorinGroup - silence?
Another developers given information on blog or they websides.
Here is waiting only for finished product.
I remember when @Aravisian show me the funcionality xfce4.
Thinking how many things on this forum will be not usable in the future about DE xfce.
I am wondering if another distributions still will support desktop XFCE then Zorin distribution - Will he fall off his bike?
Well what they decided then it happens.
We have a choice we are freedom.

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Trust has always been a gift. It is something that we choose to give to others.
You can never truly know what goes on inside of the skull of another person. There is what you would like to believe about them.
Trust is one of the greater gifts that we can ever give. It is fragile, easily broken. It elicits a variety of emotions; of bonding or of fear.

This is why we can not ever ask or expect others to freely give trust. We make efforts to earn it. And everyone, no matter how close, everyone needs a little reassurance sometimes. We cannot shift the burden of blame onto others for failing to trust us. If a spouse must leave on a business trip and during this time away, the other spouse expresses insecurities, do not accuse them of lacking security - because it is normal and natural to have them. No one can ever say with conviction "you are supposed to trust me." Provide the reassurances needed to build security.
That is effective communication.

I do not believe that in any way, the ZorinGroup had or have any malicious intentions. Breaking trust is not necessarily done with intent. It can be caused by a misunderstanding or being out of touch or from a lack of consideration or a moment of being self-absorbed.
This is true for us all, in all of our relationships.

How you can trust the ZorinGroup is based on how they provide feedback to you and the user base with open and direct communication. Given what they say and how they say it, you can then make a choice about how much you are willing to give.

It is hard to trust a Mystery. Or a silent developer. In choosing silence (either as a directed choice or from being in the habit of staying out of touch and not paying attention), the consequences become a self inflicted wound.

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Hello:
I downloaded Zorin Os 17 Lite and tested it on a computer, without installing it.
When I saw the memory consumption: surprise! it consumed 2 Gb of memory, more than Zorin Core that consumes 1,9 Gb.
Is this a distribution optimized for older computers?

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What are your system specs? Desktop environments will consume more memory if it's available, within a threshold. If you have a lot of memory available, it would explain why its' trying to use more.

I just upgraded to on a virtual machine with 4GB and it's using ~500MB at idle. For comparison, Core uses ~945MB. I took this screenshot right after a restart for good measure, but from here the real consumption would probably spike as more and more tasks use the memory (which is a good thing, otherwise it's unused memory).

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I am not sure what happened with all the fuss pertaining to Xfce Lite.

It was expected and then suddenly people started to comment and infer that Lite was not more. I was surprised to say the least. I don't know where people came to that conclusion.

I like Zorin's Xfce Lite - it's the only Xfce I installed and used for a while. I am not an Xfce fan nor a GNOME aficionado. But I do like what Zorin did with GNOME and Xfce to make is very user friendly and fast at the same time.

Anyway, I am glad Xfce is still a thing for Zorin for at least a few more years.

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The inference came from the Zorin OS Lite download link being removed from the Download page. So not entirely an unreasonable guess.
However, we could see the Lite development packages being inserted into the Zorin OS repository, along with the Upgrader Tool for it... So commented that it clearly was not discontinued.

Yet, apparently.

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The developers make it clear that, as of version 19, Zorin Os Lite will no longer be available.

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Have any of the moderators been able to contact the developers, to get a more detailed explanation as to why they have decided to discontinue the Lite version?

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See this: Concerned about the long-term future of Zorin OS - #11 by AZorin

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I first came to know about Zorin a year ago, when I installed Zorin 16 lite on my sister-in-law's very old laptop (i3, second gen). I was amazed at how well it ran and how good it looked. Today I upgraded that laptop to 17 lite, and I'm still amazed.

My own (much newer) laptop runs the full Zorin 17 pro version and it's superb. But I have to say that the XFCE lite version is incredible; so light on resources and almost no compromises. I love it.

I do understand the developers' position that they want to focus on one version of Zorin. I'm also pleased that they've committed to supporting the lite version for 5 years. People comparing them to Microsoft really need to give their head a wobble.

But... for me, the XFCE version is unique and amazing. There is nothing else that delivers such a modern looking OS for very old computers. So I really hope they change their minds.

Whatever they decide, Zorin remains my favourite Linux distro (with all due respect to Linux Mint and all the other great distros out there).

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