I am still surprised at the amount of terminal input required

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Yes I'm not the first but if Zorin is to take on more windows users who would avoid terminal entry, then there needs to be more info on the main display as to why we cannot open an apparently installed program.
Example I had never heard of the browser 'Brave' cos I've led a sheltered life!
Install should be easy but no this program along with Opera are there but never seen.
Checking thru help brings issues with multiple screens (I dont see any) then we very soon get into stuff like...sudo nala install brave-browser
Which isn't recognized by 'terminal'.

Further searching of help shows this was done and dusted some months ago, apparently.

So for us terminally shy users trying to migrate from MS to an apparently 'windows like' ecosystem, how can we discover whats going on beneath the 'hood' when things that opened in MS windows or told you why, wont in Zorin?

Reg

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Welcome to the Forum!

Brave should be preinstalled on Zorin.

This can't be recognized by default because nala is ... a visual Mask for APT - the Package Manager - to look nicer and have a better Layout. The normal Command is: sudo apt install brave-browser

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I agree that Terminal is a Linux migration killer, but Zorin is the first version of any distro, including a Zorin a few years ago, which has actually persuaded me to migrate permanently. Sure, there is still a bit of Terminal work, maybe not always necessary, but if I see a guide offering me Terminal commands to achieve what I want, then I'll use it. I easily update apps and system in Terminal, I've resized logical partitions, and each time it gets less frightening and annoying. I've been in Zorin (this time) for only a month, and now nothing will persuade me to return to MicroSpy...

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You know, in this age of AI powered search engines, there is less reason than ever to fear the terminal. Used judiciously, sites like perplexity.ai (my favorite) are incredibly powerful tools in educating oneself on just about any topic. By "used judiciously" I mean exercising judgement as to information sources, doing some due diligence by cross checking with more than one source, not experimenting on your "workhorse" machine - common sense stuff. The "killer" aspect of having a full-on oracle at your fingertips is instant feedback, no matter how vague the question; and especially the ability to ask followup questions in a conversational manner, since the AI is contextually aware. Simply extraordinary. I think this is the golden age right here.
OK that was a tangent - sorry.
But here's what helped me keep the negatives of using AI to a minimum: I question the answers given. If I think "is this solution safe?" that's the question I ask. If I have doubts about something, I express those doubts, or concerns. If I detect conflicting information I point that out. If I want more reputable sources of information, I ask for them. And if I think an answer is wrong, I argue with the AI. Silly? Not at all, because in every case above, I continue to benefit from asking the questions! As a result, it has had the same effect on me that how-to youtube videos did - I'm emboldened to try new things.
One of them has been the terminal.

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Perplexity is nice but I am suspecting it is a Google search engine so may revert to Mojeek that allows me to use Brave search without the need to install Brave. On recent use Brave is now nagging me to install the Browser. No thanks, I am sticking with zen.

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To be fair, I never had to extensively use terminal, neither on Mint nor Zorin.
Yup, sometimes it's faster to do something in terminal (like edit a configuration file) or change a setting not visible in GUI... but how much does it differ from Windows in that matter?
On Windows you also have a command line. And yes, as Windows GUI is being constantly dumbed down and settings are being hidden from the user, there are more fields where you'd have to resort to PowerShell.

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Interesting point. Thank you. BTW, did you move from Mint to Zorin? If so, would you mind sharing your reasons?

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You're comment got my attention, so did a quick search (admittedly in Perplexity), asking if Alphabet and Perplexity were allies or competitors, and was shown this:

Perplexity and Alphabet are primarily competitors. Perplexity positions itself as an AI-powered "answer engine" that directly challenges Alphabet's Google Search dominance by delivering concise, cited answers instead of link lists.

Perplexity launched Comet, an AI browser challenging Google Chrome's market lead, causing Alphabet stock dips amid free access announcements. It pioneered features like AI Overviews and citations that Google later adopted, fueling rivalry in search and browsing. Reports highlight Perplexity's bids for Chrome and strategies exposing Google's gaps.​

No alliances appear; Perplexity backs from Nvidia, Bezos, and SoftBank target google's core business without partnerships. content disputes with publishers underscore independent competition, not collaboration.

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My suspicion about Perplexity was seeing "Continue with Google" plus another Google sign in option which I always cancel. Found an excellent article about the founders of Perplexity:

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No I have not moved from Mint to Zorin. I had been a daily user of Zorin since version 4 up to 15. I then managed to inadvertently wipe my precious Zorin 15 Core by mistake following a family argument. I never ran Zorin 16 and only used 17 and 18 Core to write the Unofficial Manuals (I previously wrote Unofficial Manuals for 12 and 15 Core. I was going to write a manual for Zorin 15 Lite, but abandoned it as my eldest ended up on life support shortly after I started it.
My preferred OS's are ones that don't have systemd; Artix, Devuan, PCLOS Debian and PCLOS, and Antix. Those aside, the distros I do prefer that unfortunately do have systemd are Q4OS and LMDE 7. WattOS-R13 is another contender as it has very few apps and installed in 4 minutes flat! Oh and my preferred DE is Plasma over Gnome and Debian over Ubuntu. One advantage of LMDE is that you can install Plasma, which you can't do on the stock Cinnamon release.
Oh and I also like GhostBSD but BSD can't cope with multi audio speaker output.

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Ah, I see. Aravind Srinivas doing research for Google Brain and Deep Mind, offering (unbelievably)to buy Chrome... I can see why you would might suspect a connection.

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What system combination have you chosen for your daily driver?
(I am sorry to learn that your eldest child was on life support.)

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Brave is also visible in GNOME Software "simply search Brave and click install"

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Currently playing with LMDE 7 with Plasma on a dying drive (HDD), and Q4OS Plasma. I had issues migrating to PCLOS Debian 13 with Plasma 6.3.6. I would have preferred if Plasma stayed on the more stable 5.27.xx.
The life support issue was in 2018 as a result of mis-diagnosis, eldest has Lupus not plastik anaemia. I think eldest was used as a guineapig for trainee surgeons to extract bone marrow which took a needless hour when it should have been 10 minutes.

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Another wannabe migrator to Zorin here. For info, I'm a recently retired IT professional who always worked on Windows (from workstations to servers).
I'm fluent in Powershell and other scripting and programming languages, even did some C++.
Over the years, I played around with a number of Linux distros at home, but could never migrate due to my two main applications not running natively in Linux and because I just didn't want to invest lots of time into the change.

I still remember a distro I tested which required to manually edit an obscure text file with an archaic text editor from the command line just to change the display resolution ... and here I am, finally trying to move to Zorin, just to find that I have to do the same manual editing in a still archaic text editor in a command line, just to prevent Zorin from doing anything when I close the lid of my laptop (after more than half an hour of researching; no AI, never, I just can't trust any AI and I know why).

With my professional background, I can manage that, but it still enormously annoys me and from my experience in user support, I can guarantee that 90% of Windows users will just stop there and stay with the simple life they get in Windows.

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Exactly right. This is the precise reason that I've given up Linux after maybe 20 attempts over maybe 30 years - it was reliant so much on Terminal. I don't think it's "soft" to want to have a GUI, just as it isn't "hardcore" to be able to use a command line. These days I think it's reasonable to expect a GUI for most things, since that's what every Windows user is accustomed to, and if Linux is finally to take over from Windows then that's how Linux must evolve. Having said that, I've lost my fear and annoyance at Terminal and use it when necessary to do the few things that are either easier or essential in a CLI.

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I migrated from Windows about a year ago, tried many distros. The use of the terminal here is rarely necessary in my experience unless something goes wrong, which hasn't really happened to me in any major way. In the case you mentioned with installing Brave, it's already available for download and install in the default Software app. It's more of a Linux culture kind of thing. People could tell you how to peck around the settings to do certain things through a UI, but it's ultimately easier just to copy and paste a command. Plus, everything is adjustable and customizable and ever-changing on Linux, whereas Windows has a universal UI. The UI is rarely stagnant on Linux, but commands are often forever.

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Then, they did not really want to migrate, did they?
GnuLinux is available so people can use it if they Want to.
It's free.
It's not a market.
Microsoft is a Two Trillion Dollar Market.

GnuLinux - is just a choice.

Obscure.
Arcane.
Very descriptive, as well as leading words.
Let's simplify it.

You edited a file, to change a configuration.
No need for words like "Arcane" or "Mysterious" or "Oh My God - I had to open a file, this is terrible."

You did Not have to do it in command line.
You could have navigated to that same location on the file path in your GUI File Manager and opened the file in your GUI text editor.
You did not choose to do it that way. No one forced Nano on you.

With your Professional Background, you should know that.

I used Windows OS exclusively until I migrated to GnuLinux. For Decades. I know how Windows is. I worked in it, around it and professionally.
Using the cmd prompt, often.
Fighting in Regedit - often.
Fighting Microsoft controls - often.
Acting like Microsoft is easy is not only inaccurate - it is demonstrably false. All one needs to do is open the internet and read all the pervasive problems on Windows OS, where you get vague error codes, software conflicts and things not working.

Now... I will admit that the laptop lid, which is a Common Issue and frankly, easily searched... It is quite Literally a provided solution in the Very First Google Search Hit - is annoying. No A.I. needed or involved. How it took you thirty minutes to research it given you said you had that Same Problem and solved it the same way before is the only Arcane thing in your post.

That is nowhere enough, in any Universe... to overcome the major problems on Windows OS.

Expectation met.
There is a GUI for most things. Here, in GnuLinux.
But not every single thing, just as is exactly True that there is not a GUI answer for every single thing in Windows OS... And there is no possible way of creating one.
The Command Line is home to literally tens of thousands of commands at your disposal and no GUI can house that many buttons and options.
And if one did - People would bitterly complain that GUI was "Not easy" and "Too overwhelming."

Exactly. I volunteer my time on here.
So replies must be simple, brief and on point. I am not going to jump through hoops and hold hands.

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If your made up number had any validity, we would see:

  • Linux desktop usage to be flat or declining.
  • Linux user base to be dominated almost entirely by programmers and sysadmins
  • No growth in consumer-facing distributions

Instead, we see:

  • Persistent growth in Linux desktop usage over ~15 years
  • Increasing adoption among non-technical users (students, gamers, creatives)
  • Mainstream OEM preinstalls (Dell, Lenovo, System76)
  • Large cohorts entering Linux without command-line use (GNOME, KDE, immutable desktops)

General Note to members supplying feedback: Accuracy helps supply merit to claims. Exaggeration and theatrics is not needed and can detract from useful feedback.

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There are some things that need to be clarified here.
First, I'm not here to bash Linux, just pointing out problems that exist and will put off many users.
Second, using the command line and nano was the first answer I got from google, so I assumed it to be the most appropriate and as I personally am not afraid of using the command line, that's what I did. But I still found it annoying :grin:

They definitely did before hitting such obstacles, or they wouldn't have gone to the trouble of trying it, right?

Well, that is exactly what an average Windows user would think, believe me. I've dealt with lots of users over the last decades. From those who believed that the monitor was the PC and the PC was just a case with a harddisk (and they had never seen a Mac!), to those who didn't even know what a drive was (those who worked in a single application all the time and knew nothing else about computers).
Best was the guy who called helpdesk because he wanted to use the PC of someone else who was on holiday. Apparently it wouldn't boot. Well, it couldn't, because there was the monitor, keyboard, mouse, docking station ... but no laptop :rofl:
Not all are that bad of course, but you get the idea.

I do know, as an IT professional, not as your average Windows user.
I also had my fights with Windows and Microsoft in my professional work, but that's because I was on the server and system side, not on the user side.
At home, I always used Windows too and had very few problems with it, half of them being caused by hardware failures. For me, and most users, it just works.

I never said I had that problem before. It's one of the first and easily to find settings that I change on a new Windows install on a laptop (for me), so not a problem at all.

True, but almost anything that an average user needs is covered in a GUI in Windows. That's what counts.
The command line is the most powerful tool (I've used it extensively on servers), but the average user should not need it.
As for the quality of GUIs, sure that can be anything from excellent to unusable. But that's an issue of all OSes.

Well for the average user (again), it is much simpler, logical and intuitive (especially if he is used to a GUI centered OS), if he wants for example to change the background color, to go to Settings, Display Settings, Background. He'll find that easily, without having to search on Google & Co or to ask an AI, find the Terminal and copy/paste some text (maybe redo it because he needs sudo too). And then he may get completely lost if he wants to revert what he has just done ...

But we are way off topic now, so I'll end this interesting discussion.

I will continue to ask questions here and hopefully get answers (from real people, which I largely prefer :upside_down_face:)

Thanks to everyone here for their engagement. Keep it as civilized as it is.