I switched to Windows temporarily...And I have made some observations

I have used windoze all the way back to 3.1. And I have spent many hours looking for drivers that worked on windoze. In MY opinion the last decent version of windows was 7. It just had a layout that made more sense and many things just worked. But when MS decided I needed to update to 11 I decided it was time to look for an alternative. After some research I found out about Zorin and this forum

Last night was a clear example of why Linux is a better OS for me. I have a HP laser jet printer. Zorin and Linux mint both found that printer and installed the correct drivers on the first try. I have that printer as a network printer.

Last night after my granddaughter got a school paper written she tried to print it. Her laptop is running Windows 10. It kept saying the printer was off-line. It wasn't. About half the time she tries to print a paper using her W10 laptop we have to uninstall the printer and reinstall it to get it to work.

My experience with printers and other devices has been that Linux does a much better job of supporting them than W10. There are some exceptions because of the device manufacturers not supporting Linux but most of them do now.

I personally will never go back to windoze.

As an aside note I recently discovered that my old MS force feedback steering wheel and pedals for race car games still work on Linux. But MS hasn't supported them since the days of XP. Go figure. They don't even support their own products.

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For what is worth, I've always had problems with printers. I really don't like them as testimonies of either OS being better than others.

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It is impossible to determine the superiority of Windows and Linux in the Zorin OS forum, which is only one of the Linux-based operating systems. :person_shrugging:

My fan barely runs on my laptop.... It also barely ran on my box when I had one.

The laptop I'm using now is a Dell like my previous one using AMD. Nothing real fancy AMD Ryzen 7 5700U with Radeon Graphics × 8, with a 2tb ssd.

My old Dell laptop was using Intel.

Everything on the laptop works just fine, not a problem with any of the pre-installed hardware at all and battery life is the same or better as on the Windows side.

Part of the problem with the hardware issues is people buy things that are not compatible or fully compatible with Linux for whatever reason, usually the manufacturers. I don't use Nvidia because I know the issues, and I never have a graphics issue. Just like I wouldn't try to use hardware made exclusively for Mac on Windows, I don't try and use hardware made exclusively for Windows on Linux. Doing so, you're creating your issues and problems.

But to imply that no issues are to be found on Windows is disingenuous at best. I can't tell you the countless hours I spent fixing my own Windows systems and others because of one issue or another. Or the time searching for the driver because it was missing or Windows wasn't telling you exactly what driver was needed. Or the printer that wouldn't work, or the USB dongle for Wifi, or a controller, etc, etc, etc.

I have Mega, and I don't have any issues with it on Linux. And I also don't see what is "missing" between my Linux or Windows versions. I don't use VPN software apps because they're junk. I have PureVPN and ProtonVPN and no matter what OS you run them on they're junk. Just put your info in natively install the file and done.

People waste their time distro hopping because some think the grass is greener on the other side and some think it's cool. I try out different ones because I want to see the offering, I do it on a virtual and then I destroy it.

I'm not getting into all you wrote, @Aravisian is doing a much better job than I in addressing them.

But one thing I see on this forum and others is people create their own issues and problems. People go in and start installing this and that, touching this and that without understanding what it is they're doing. Then go to the forums and complain my system is acting up.. I can't login any more, I can't boot, my printer disappeared, etc, etc, etc. If you don't know what you're doing, then don't do it. And if you don't know how to fix what it is you're about to do then you really shouldn't be doing it. This holds true across the OS spectrum.

Then of course you have the ones that just have the newest thing out, they don't understand what a beta is and/or unstable. They just have to have the new shiny thing, even though they have no clue what the new shiny thing does. I see these same people across OS's and even devices where they install the latest and greatest then whine it doesn't work and have zero clue as to how to get it off their system. I refuse to help these people even one iota. How many postings do you see here, when are we getting Ubuntu 22, Libreoffice just released something, Wayland just released something.... Yes, Wayland... don't even get me started on that...

I have zero issues hardware wise or software wise on my install on Zorin or any of the other distro's I've used on this machine. I have a Brother printer as well that is issue free. I also don't sit here tinkering with my system on an hourly basis installing things and uninstalling things.... Maybe the problem isn't so much Linux as it is the user... The same as it would be on Windows and Mac. Just a thought.

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Windows somehow treats the shutdown as a system update. Too many times when the computer shuts down and sees the computer being updated, it really sucks (this also explains why the computer is so slow at that time, because the system is being forced to update)

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I did acknowledge the fact that this is not the fault of linux. Moreover, let it be known that I don't use Nvidia. I am using an intel core i5 3210 and amd radeon hd 7000series graphics with 8gb ram 512gb hdd.

Saying that buying hardware that does not support linux is the users fault is downright outrageous. The same can be said differently. Not supporting hardware is linux's fault.

Do you get the option to stream or open the transfer manager on linux? I did not get that when I used it on linux.

I did not do that....I distro hopped because I had to. I wrote a very comprehensive post on this. you can check it out.

I did not say that anywhere. And for the hundredth time, I wrote this post specifically to highlight the good things about windows and not to disparage linux. If you notice good things being said about Windows OS it does not mean somebody is trying to denigrate the linux desktop.

This is not relevant to the topic. Please stick to the topic. Not everyone has the time to read long paragraphs.

I am sorry what do you mean to say by this? I had to flag your post for this. You don't know who I am or what I use my computer for and how I use it..You can show your attitude elsewhere.

This is to clarify:

I did not say anything to attack linux or its users in this thread. I only pointed out places where I faced problems in linux. It is about hardware (fault of hardware manufacturers and not linux devs) and app support (fault of app devs and not linux devs). This is a feedback treat it like that and not like a debate. HELPFUL DISCUSSIONS ARE WELCOME. DEBATING AND ASKING USERS TO PROVE THEIR POINTS OR CALLING THEM AN INEFFICIENT USER IS NOT.

It was quite clear what was meant by it...

Yes, you had to flag the post.... That says all that needs to be said right there....

So because you didn't understand it or like it and it you flag it.. even though it doesn't go against the rules. Maybe you should have read the post that was made yesterday or the other day about flagging things on here by @Aravisian .

I think we're done here. I have neither the time nor patience for people that behave like this

I cannot agree that this is outrageous. While it would certainly be nice if hardware manufacturers were supportive of other Operating Systems, the onus is on any buyer to do proper research prior to buying - anything. Houses, cars, computers...
It is not outrageous to suggest the same if a buyer chooses a vehicle, then complains bitterly that many gas stations they stop at do not offer Bio-fuel or diesel. You might agree that their complaint is valid, but it just as valid that they chose to buy a vehicle that doesn't use the standard gasoline.

This may be true, but this does not mean that it applies to everyone as though they all had wasted hours distro hopping. I also distro hopped in order to see what other distros offer and configurations they set up - I thoroughly enjoyed the experience.

This is definitely true.
And had you not denigrated the Linux desktop in repeated statements, no one would have reacted to the disparity.
I think that because what you intend and what you are thinking about are what highlights in your mind, you may not notice some of the things you say that would highlight in others mind far more noticeably.
Please re-read your posts and focus more on the negative statements you made about Linux in order to promote what you had as good experiences on windows.
You used comparison between the two in order to highlight what you enjoyed about Windows - and each one was about how things don't work on Linux, are buggy, etc.

It is relevant.
The idea of comparing user experiences must include what @swarfendor437 calls PICNIC: Problem in chair not in computer.
Many of us reference this in posts, often humorously. It is very important for all users to recognize personal responsibility and allow room for growth and learning.

@Elegant_Emperor this can as easily apply to you.
Consider how you had worded your arguments against Linux specifically as
"How many people wasted hours trying different distros"
"How many people wasted hours searching alternatives"
You do not know how other people use their computers and whether or not they had the same motives in searching for other applications (I often did so because I was reveling in the option of having options) - to assume that for them it was a terrible experience is no more valid than for you to say @DeanG assumes what happened to a persons computer.

Many users are honest and responsible and they come to this forum and directly say: "I do not know what I am doing. Can you help me with figuring this out." I mean.... I cannot list the millions of things that I do not know. Or wouldn't even begin to know how to do. It's normal and it is not humbling at all to admit to the fact we do not all have all-encompassing knowledge.

From your perception, you may view it as your intention. However, what you physically posted was that your experience on Windows was superior due to buggy, sluggish, unstable apps on Linux as a whole, including material that you struck out and retracted.

I agree that directly calling a user inefficient is not helpful. Had that been the case, that would need to be addressed.
DeanG gave a general example that is applicable - one of the possibility of PICNIC. This is equally valid to your assumption that in a general sense, users experience the lacking features, sluggishness or bugginess that you suggested and must distro hop trying to find a working distro.
However, Debating and asking users to support claims is 100% helpful.
Per the example I also gave: "Fact: Pink dragons get more lollypops..." Any person can post a bit of information without support and mislead another person.
In order to hash out clarity, determine the most accuracy and keep a balanced view, formally debating and asking each claimant to support their claims is essential.
It certainly should not be one-sided, nor be allowable that any person can just make any claim without support.

I was typing a lot and quickly and made a very embarrassing error. The word "billion" was in my brain and I typed it instead of "million". I quite literally busted up laughing at the absurdity of it as you (rightfully) responded "There aren't that many people on the planet."
If you hadn't called me out on that, it may have remained as an incorrect statement unless I noticed it re-reading it.
And that's a good thing and it allowed me the opportunity to go back in and correct it.

Opposing views are a part of life and hashing out what makes those differences so marked is also beneficial. Just because two people may begin to argue over the topic does not mean that the topic is no good.

But we all must make allowances for how we perceive statements. Notably, our own.
If a person logs into Windows and has a pleasant surprise on their experience (Which many users comment on without incident), it may be more conducive to that discussion to not relate this experience by repeatedly asserting that Linux falls short in place after place after place. I think it likely you went on a tangent that you had not intended by comparing Linux and Windows, which is why that comparison does not highlight for you as it does for others.
Many apps work very well on Linux even though they are made for Windows, because the developers developed them on Linux, then adapted them to work on Windows.
Some apps work better on Windows. Some work better on Linux. But as a Linux Support forum, it is important to support claims, show the actual differences; Rather than claim Linux generally just falls short and leave it at that - disenchanting users who are eager to make the switch without cause.

TLDR:
This threads strongest highlight is it demonstrates how we all perceive what is said by others including what is said by ourselves. It is interesting how one statement can draw very different focus from different people.

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This is a moot argument, Linux windows Mac OS Chrome OS all have their places and their uses. I solely use Linux at home it is my preferred OS but I live in a Windows environment at work I am comfortable and adapt at both. They are both excellent choices they both get the job done and it comes down to what your preferences or use case is. If you're a casual gamee and just want a free open operating system Linux is a great choice. If you're competitive gamer it's going to be playing triple A titles requiring anti cheat software you're going to have to go windows. If you're going to deploy 4000 endpoints across the globe I would not suggest trying to do that with Linux your best bet is Microsoft Windows ecosystem. I mean I could go on and on the best operating system is the best one for your use case scenario and preferences.

I liked when people taken a choice and writing something. I respect that. Any operating system have both sides good and bad. That why people using for them preferences.
Linux is like a military training ground.
Anything can happen.
One what i seeing linux tools and software free when your system is broken then linux help that. Many software on linux not working on windows and the same with apple.
I wish also some topic not so fast closed what i can sure it will be happening here soon. This is something will be like closed a mouth people who have experience with using linux and windows. I hope this subject not will be closed.

You do see the inconsistency in that screen shot. Explorer and vlc both have a flat, material style to them. Device manager or even task manager both still have the recessed window look of windows 2000/xp. Hitting the start button will also show refined graphics, but search control panel and again you have the win2000/xp/7 appearance. This is inconsistent.

I don't dislike windows. I managed windows networks, repaired some of their best and worst versions. I have enough experience to tell you that doing something in windows to correct errors, set permissions or customize simple things requires hours of searching, trial and error, in settings and the registry.

Linux has been an experience, learning how things work and that it's not difficult to modify anything. There are configuration files to change, in a readable format rather than dword vs string or boolean that requires 16 digit codes representing settings or omitted registry entries just so you can't change it.

What did Microsoft in for me is their blatant disregard for peoples privacy, security (thanks for that Google) as well as their move to Micro services. You do realize they are beginning to integrate the Linux kernel into windows right? Where do you think that is going? Windows will become a Linux distro with a registry... Microsoft will no longer have to support their own os. Several thousand developers that dedicate time and effort to Linux will do it for them. They will only have to work out any bugs from integrating the latest kernel. That to will only last for so long.

It's funny. Microsoft stared by stealing an os, now they're doing it again, so everyone can see it, but it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter that thousands of devoted developers are going to be used by a corporation, to maintain their os, and never have to or try to pay them.

I don't hate Windows.... but Microsoft is going to far.

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At our local LUG, (Linux User Group) it was stated that M$ had stolen elements of GNU/Linux as far back as Windows 7 and has been spyware before that. KB updates are a prime example of where you are advised to install but you need to click on a link to find out what is being addressed and the average user would have no idea what the updates effectively did to your machine. I remember getting my first P120 machine with 16 Mb RAM with Windows 95 and a postcard to send to M$ so you would be kept up to date. Never heard anything from them. On another GNU/Linux forum someone posted that at least with GNU/Linux you knew what was happening "under the hood". Before lockdown I was using Windows 10 and Office 2019. I worked from home until I retired in September last year, first using Feren OS before migrating to Devuan 3 "beowulf". In Feren OS I could use the free Braiile Blaster program, when I migrated to Devuan it would not run partly because they introduced a library that was only available in Ubuntu or its forks. So I had to use the Windows version on a VM of Windows 8.1 Pro 32-bit and the only other item I needed Windows for was Outlook to access a unique mailbox that could be accessed by more than one member of the team. I worked out on my own how to setup my Outlook365 work email in Evolution, at least I got a bleep when new mail arrived, which previously had led me to invest in axsecond monitor because Outlook 365 has no new mail notification sound, as my work needed an original document that needed to be modified on one side of the screen and the new one on the left meant I had missed an email sent by a colleague two hours earlier!
Then a month before retirement I had worked out myself with a bit of research how I could log in to the secure servers at work using Remmina Remote. Unlike using Edge in my Windows VM that required me to enter my username and password 3 times, with Remmina it was only needed once. I rest my case!

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He want sayed we repairing windows but i using Linux? Besides usefull tool.

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I agree with OP.

The simple fact is a lot of the really big open source and cross platform apps, by those I mean apps like FireFox, actually run better in Windows or at least as well, and are heavily optimized.

Same goes for any 4K/HDR/video support - but that has more to do with video drivers and hw accel.

Linux file systems (ext4) are faster than NTFS when it comes to lots of small file access, NTFS is more resilient and as fast for large files. This matters based on the kind of app you use.

Windows already has prefetch (you can add Preload in Linux) for everything.

HW drivers is not really a contest and MS actually spends a lot of time ensuring backward compatibility, thats separate from oem's supporting Windows more.

I know that Linux is more efficient in most areas, but that is not really apparent or relevant since computers have been fast enough for a decade now.

Ever since Windows 7, BSODs are also a thing of the past, as is virus protection. Windows has NAT firewall and Defender and the defaults are good enough for 99% of people who will never get infected.

In conclusion both Windows/Linux are excellent, the usual issues associated with Windows are a thing of the past, Windows 10/11 is excellent, optimized, fast OS that supports every hw ever made, will run any app from 20yrs ago (try that on any other OS) and keeps getting leaner and faster.

And Linux of course runs the world, there is really nothing to be said.

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Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree with one of your statements. Windows 10 will NOT run any app from 20 years ago nor support older hardware. I even have some MS games that ran fine on Windows XP and Windows 7 but they will not run on Windows 10. I also have a MS force-feedback steering wheel and pedals with a USB connection that will not run on Windows 10. And the interesting thing is my MS force-feedback steering wheel works fine on Linux. I have never used Windows 11 so I can't comment on what it can or can't do. When MS tried to force me to update my PCs to 11 I switched everything to Linux and now i'm very glad I did.

I have actually not found anything that I want to do that Linux can't do. I use my PCs for occasional video editing. I also do online research and write my own Sunday School lessons using Biblical research material and Bible apps. I use my Linux computer as a RC flight simulator. I also have even used it to write and edit programs for a CNC router. I can also draw electrical schematics with it. And of course like most users I sometimes play games on my PCs,

I will admit it sometimes takes some research and effort to find the right Linux program for my use. But as I said so far I haven't run into anything that Windows can do that Linux can't do.

Respectfully,
Carroll

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In that case I defer to you. I personally have tried to run some old Win 95/Me exes as well as dos based cmdline programs and they ran fine, but I certainly will not say everything will work, I will however say Windows backward compatibility is pretty great.

I stopped pc gaming a while ago, I'm a sw developer so I tend to be very biased towards Linux. My current setup is Windows 11 (my pc is too old to officially support it but its just a flag you can turn off to install) on which I run WSL and do a lot of my actual work in Terminal, plus an old Thinkpad on which I run Linux (right now EndeavourOS). I like both and have no issues, both excel in certain areas.

This one got a reaction out of me, too.
I had to manually patch multiple apps in order to get them to work on 10 after unhappily and forcefully upping from 7.
I stayed quiet since the last time I posted in this thread, things did not go so well...
But... no... I had to troubleshoot on Win10 a lot.
When I had to use Windows 11, that increased. Windows XP I really liked and Win 7 I liked. But 10 hurt and 11 nearly gave me a brain aneurysm trying to solve all of its issues. I was in and out of the registry more than I was the file manager.
A lot of my current animosity toward Windows stems mostly from Windows 10 and 11.

That being said, I agree with the majority of @ecr 's comments. Windows is the dominant OS, holding the lions share of the market. It has compatibility and support for sure.
It's the other side of Windows that I cannot deal with.

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Since what people want in a PC differs from person to person, it is only natural that the best OS also differs from person to person. However, I am interested in what FOSS can do to prevent consumers from being disadvantaged by market monopolies.

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I have a machine from 2016/2017 and it boots much faster then you have lol. Boot speeds are better for me on linux. Everything runs great, firefox etc. No issues here as what you write

False, you still need to install drivers to run the hardware. 2 months ago i reinstalled my linux desktop, within 15 minutes i was done installing my os, updating etc. My wife asked me is it already finished ???? With windows you where busy for about 2 hours.

All the drivers that need to be installed (chipset, sound, gpu and so on). The forced reboots after each update in windows. In linux everything litterly worked out of the box for me except that i had to change my pins for sound

How can a spyware OS be excellent to you ? And no, windows 11 does not “official” support older HW so you are wrong in that part as well

It wont take long for linux to increase market share thanks to steam and their awesome support for Linux. Its a matter of time.