Linux vs. Windows

This is one of those times where you have arguments caused by missunderstanding. We all want the same thing, Linux to get better. But there is obviously not a 1-size fits all solution to do that.

I think there are probably many points of view on what must be done to achieve that goal, making Linux better. But its a lot like the Senent, we have ideas, we may not always agree. But there must be some common ground to fall back on, from which we can agree upon a decision.

I remember that scene in Star Wars Attack Of The Clones, where Padmae was sitting in a medow field with Anakon. And they were talking about this very thing.

2 Likes

There is money in it, otherwise they still wouldn't be coming out with them. There are more and more email clients coming out for Windows and Mac, but only a few support Linux. Blue Mail and Mail Spring support Linux, but they leave a lot to be desired right now.
Email clients are not going anywhere any time soon, I've heard this for years now.

I have 6 exchange work emails, there is no way I am sitting here with 6 tabs open and I would bet most people would not do that either.

Yes, I have webmail as well, however I put them all into Outlook with my work email and Voila, all there easy peasy. No fuss, No muss.

How is that any different than having to spend your time learning how to use it in GUI?
Really?
Learning the layout - where the tools are- how they function, the keyboard shortcuts.
Try Blender.
Try it out. All GUI. There is no Terminal Command needed for it.

it's not irrelevant. It is 100% relevant. You dismissing it makes no change to reality.
I use GUI a lot. I use terminal a lot. I don't Hate Either.
I'm willing to learn. Not feel entitled to demands.

Terminal: One command or three commands swiftly entered - Done. Much faster, easier and efficient.
You cannot compare the Speed and Efficiency of the terminal to GUI - GUI will always lose, every time. The GUI may still be initializing during the time I entered the command and moved on.

Funny... 'cuz... You and Tom both were just lamenting how Linux requires the terminal unlike Windows. Which is also odd since Tom said he ensures he never uses the terminal, too. Which is it?

What I actually Said was that your differing opinion may be due to us using different apps and having different needs.
At No Time Whatsoever did I say, Imply or Direct that if it is good enough for me, it is good enough for you.
Where I put an olive branch, you saw a sword. That is 100% on you. This is the same as above, you believing that "I don't like GUI" only because I promote or defend the terminal. It is entirely possible a person can appreciate both without hating the other.

I suspect, that like Tom, whenever a person does not agree with you 100%, you decide they are an enemy and must be treated like one. I am not taking that treatment from him and I won't take it from you.

I make GUI themes. I greatly enjoy theming GUI. Ignoring my actuality just to paint me the enemy makes no sense.

I never said Linux is Perfect.
Or that it is "Good enough for everyone."
Yes, Linux needs improvement, like all operating systems do.

But you both are getting on here calling it half-baked because you might need to open a terminal.
Go figure.

2 Likes

I dont know if it has all what you want on a mail client, but i use Vivaldi in windows as well as in Linux :slight_smile:

1 Like

I have noticed this as well. I didn't know that so many people out there used mail clients. I have never been the type of person to like to use mail clients. I have had folks on here though asking me which mail client I use, presumably to find out what I recommend.

But simply put I don't use them. Web-based mail is good enough for me. I guess if you were running a tablet with very low RAM in it, you wouldn't leave an email tab open or whatever. But when you have at least 8GB of RAM or more, leaving an email tab open in your browser is not a big deal.

And if you have desktop notifications turned on, you can get notified of a new email message. And furthermore, if you have an email app on your phone, you can get notifications there as well.

I am guessing those who really love using mail clients might be business owners or office workers perhaps? IDK

2 Likes

That is a Browser, not an email client. Two completely different things.

I have a total of 10 different email in my Outlook, 6 of them are just for work. I would need 10 tabs opened in a browser to not use an email client. That is not very convenient. to say nothing of the fact I can't just move emails around easily, I would have to send them to each email I want to to then put them into a folder.

1 Like

I think the above answers your question.:smiley:
It answered it for me, at least. That makes the need for a mail client make a lot more sense.

1 Like

I literally had no idea that a person could have 10-emails. That means you are a VIP. He's right, if I had to manage 10-emails, I would be driven completely insane. lol

1 Like

First I never lamented how Linux requires a terminal, not once.

Sorry, but a terminal is not faster than using GUI in particular if someone doesn't know what to enter. Which most people would not know. This isn't about what you or I know, this is about the average user. And it is much easier to learn the GUI than it is CL, it just is. That literally was the whole point of its invention.

Yes it is irrelevant that you like to use the terminal. Nobody is stopping from using it.

I don't think anyone is the enemy, but you start off the thread talking about how we need to start paying for Linux and that it needs to be able to bring people over. I agree, as did everyone else.

But then in subsequent postings, you are posting to other postings that in essence you like Linux the way it is and that the programs are good enough for you. Yes, you did this more than once. Yes, I see this as contradictory. You're not going to get people to pay for things that are not up to the same basic standard as their Windows counterparts. Would I pay for TB right now? No, no I wouldn't. I also would not pay for Master PDF, neither of these are up to par.

I also saw no sword, nor do I suspect anyone else did either. Everyone agreed with your original post, but when we started pointing out the flaws of Linux, you seem to take it as a personal offence. It wasn't and isn't.

No actually neither of called it half baked because one would have to open a terminal. It's half baked because it doesn't even do the basics, terminal or otherwise. But I do think if it doesn't have a GUI it is not ready for prime time and most typical users would not use it nor pay for it.

1 Like

What can i saying. Many people using corporation software because they hold hand and tried doing everything about Linux don't be a perfect.
I started buying Zorin distribution Ultimate from version 7.
I don't know how many people go forward and support example to 16 Pro.
I know if you gived a chance and support someone then this gived a kick to doing something new and better.
Check example POP OS and Zorin. They can creating laptops or computers to selling but price is mostly bigger from corporation computers. The one what is good you can always unmount hard disk put new and installing a Linux.
The second where going PC? Parents buying mostly pc for children and they are just a gaming.
This is two sides people linux for programming and Billy for gaming with xbox.
If some people not all start focus on one system with design GUI then it could be possibilty create very stable operative system like apple.
Problem is many people have many ideas and that what going to war and people who know how working kernel and can modify, creating something new.
Everything in linux always something wrote is older from peripherals device what exist on market because we have non-free software where corporation hold a hand and not share that because for money.
I don't know but some people using example facebook and one a game what playing for years on windows and if cannot playing on linux then they don't change operative system because maybe put many money on this game what playing many years.

Hey, you guys may not be aware of this, but LTT is doing a challange deal where both him and Luke dabble and try to learn Linux. Linus has already talking about a few things regarding his experience already.

As more content gets posted, I am keeping an eye on it. If you want the opinions of Linux coming from a Windows and MAC user, well that would be Linus, and I find his comments interesting, about his experience already.

Suffice to say, his comments so far arn't all positive. So, anyways, I will be keeping tabs on his experience cause I am interested. Figured you guys might be too.

2 Likes

Yes, it's a bit much LOL.. I have to be careful to make sure I'm responding from the right account sometimes.

I run 3 different companies 2 are the same company just under 2 different names serving different clients. The other one is in the same field but does completely different things. I have access to the main mailbox everyone does plus my own personal for each company.

Now possibly adding a 4th for the International company.. UGH

I have different personal accounts for different things, 2 are just throw away accounts I use to sign up for things, that get filled with spam and then I have a few personal accounts that I only give to people I know.

Most people in my business have several email accounts, there's no way a browser would work for this.

Well, of course. But that makes it an unreasonable comparison, then. I could say the same about a person being utterly confused by a GUI they have no idea how to use.
It does assume that a person knows how to use the terminal - that is a given.

There is no contradiction other than the one that you are inventing.

You - said that Linux lacks support, called the apps "half-baked." But you gave no examples of what apps are "half-baked" nor gave any suggestions of improvement.
YOU- said things work on windows out of the box. You implied this is not the case on Linux.

I pointed out that in my experience on multiple computers, everything on Zorin Works out of the box.

This is not contradictory to my own statements at all. Only to yours.
Nor does the above say that I think Linux is totally good enough as it is.

However, I do think that users who are not interested in Linux that complain it should be "more like Windows" need to examine their motives. Is it about not wanting to learn something new?
Because if Linux is just like Windows- it is superfluous. Why have Linux if it's just like Windows and Windows is well established with a two trillion dollar company supporting it?
Do you see?

Linux is different and I point out that that, in itself, is not a bad thing.

I made a valid point:

Your response was:

Why else would you claim (as fact, even) that I "don't like GUI?" Can you see the major assumption here? That if I do not see it your way, that I must therefor dislike GUI?

You saw a sword.

What basics? Clarify. Examples.

I've already stated examples, read above. Half baked is half baked, read above. I'm not repeating myself again. And if you think what they have to offer is great, that's nice. I don't and clearly others don't either or else they'd be moving over and they're not.

A typical user (not you or I) is not confused by GUI's. It seems you keep thinking this is about a typical Linux user and not a Windows or Mac user, it isn't. You're trying to get those people. I assume that by your own words telling people they need to learn how to use the terminal over the GUI. No, no they don't. The GUI has been around technically since the 1960's and it isn't going anywhere at this point.

If people want their software used, it needs a GUI. That's the fact of the matter in today's world and has been the case for several decades now. You can want to parse and argue the point all you want, but it doesn't matter. If people didn't want it, then we wouldn't even be having this discussion in the first place and Linux would be an option on computers at the store. So it isn't a matter of seeing it my way, I don't care if you do or not. The very fact that after 20 years Linux is still trying to make inroads tells me what the truth and reality is. You can like it or not, try and tell me I'm saying something or not, or argue the point all you want but it doesn't change the reality of the situation. Software is made first and foremost for Windows and Mac, not Linux.

I don't think it's not about learning something new per se, as people move from Windows to Mac. I believe once again, that it comes down to the software. Mac has pretty much all the Windows software variants, Linux however does not. Mac users could easily make the switch over to Linux as many of the programs are the same base anyhow as their kernels are both Unix based.

Now, I've stated what I stated and I'm not going to argue it any further parsing everything. I agree with your initial premise and I've given reasons why I believe things need to change in order to achieve that goal. You can like them or not.

It is both of them :wink: Its a browser AND an email-client. love it.

I read above. You waved in the direction of Printers and Thunderbird.
Thunderbird is Mozilla. I mean... It's valid. I am right there with you... But let's face it, Mozilla is not a Linux Developer.

Ah... LOL... I don't agree. From years of experience, I do not in the least agree.
I have helped far far too many people sitting helplessly in front of a Screen with a Nice Big Friendly GUI open in front of them and they had no idea what to do.
The terminal is not exactly rocket science.

I only recently moved over to Linux from Windows myself!
I had never ever used Linux before.

True...
You assume too much, too.
Just like assuming I hate GUI and Assuming I said that it's good enough for everyone, right?
This is getting tiring, Dean.

Assumption based on nothing I said. I never said that people must learn to use the terminal over GUI. Just be willing to accept and use the tools provided. be willing to learn instead of demanding that you shouldn't have to.

What I said was:
The GUI is fast, powerful and efficient.
I never said everyone must learn it Over the GUI. Not at all. You have a very strong penchant for putting a lot of words in someones mouth. You are painting a facade of the villain. You see a sword.
I do not agree with you on some points... so therefor you claim I must hate GUI. you claim I think everyone must learn the terminal over the GUI.

A GUI Themer.:expressionless:

The only parsing I see here is the massive distortion of how you present another persons words.

Just sayin'.

Using the Right Tool for the Job is a good way to go, instead of always shunning one or the other.

Read your own words above. Yes you did state people should learn how to use the terminal over the GUI, in fact you stated they were capable of learning it.

I deal with people who barely can set up their own email, so yes I know what I'm talking about.

This is a forum, I'm not here to write a dissertation that meets your approval, giving blow by blow examples of everything I say you parse down.

Yes, yes I do quite successfully. I'm sure I am as well, saves me the trouble of firing you. See around here I set the rules and what people use for my business. What you want, what you like or what you think at the end of the day doesn't matter. My business, my money, my way. I take the information, look it over and make my decision. You may not like the decision, and it doesn't matter. But if someone like yourself wants to argue every point, there's the door. Go start your own company and do things the way you want them done.

But the fact you have to resort to personal insults speaks volumes... Have a great day

Quote me.
Quote where I said that people should learn the terminal Over the GUI.

(Hint: It is impossible for you to do so, since I did not say that.)

I consider misrepresenting a persons words to be a pretty personal insult. It is to distort their being in order to villify them in order to justify your own arguments.

I's an Honest Statement. If you distort my words this much, in order to vilify me just because I do not agree with all your points, I am glad I do not work for you. You have been personally insulting me across the last five of your posts.

Yes, but it does not handle exchange, only POP or IMAP. That doesn't work for me as I use exchange. And yes I know you can set up exchange to work off of IMAP, but it isn't the same.