Off-topic discussion on Zorin OS stability

Zorin has become unstable long-running, due to these rash of updates to prep for the OS upgrade to 17. I say hurry up and get about it so we can get this BS instability behind us. Jeesh.....

Nope. Not for the majority, otherwise we would be flooded with help requests here.
You need to substantiate your statement with specific issues, before making such a rash generlisation.
From past experience, Z17 will only be released when it is tested and ready to be released.

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Denial is a place in France. Watch a movie - it freezes, work with a couple of apps for a long period and the apps crash. had to time shift twice to regain stability, soon as I update - Rinse and repeat. It's old fast - it's not like it's old hardware or something exotic - just advanced basics less than a year old. Meh - you make it sound like I'm BSing you, before this gets ugly - change your tude. It's still an operating system getting set for the new one, updating piece, by piece. You can tell it's near because like Windows, Fedora, and other OS - closer it gets to being upgraded, the edges of the old systems become less stable, and first sign is always long-term fails after more than four hours of running.

@zabadabadoo 's statement is a clear and verifiable observation:

In fact, the forum has been quieter lately.
Anecdote does not equal evidence.

You would do well to not accuse members of denial while you make unsupported claims and promote ideas without being able to support them with evidence.

This is a complete assumption that lacks merit given the Five Year Long Term Support base.
I would agree that due to the recent releases of several newer hardware components, there is some catching up to do. But that is a far cry from what you just said.

You can use this forum as a resource to try to understand and repair the cause of your system instabilities. Making broad and sweeping generalizations and attacking the other members is unlikely to help you resolve them.
Focusing on the actual cause of the trouble is the more logical approach.

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Same here. I check every day, though I don't post much.

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My experience is valid - choosing it not to be is denial. Quibbling over an observation because it does not validate yours is also denial. It's frozen up a few times today necessitating restarts - then it goes on as usual. Besides the updates - nothing else has changed - backdating through Timeshift has made it not the giant deal it would be elsewhere - also I am here daily and notice an uptick of updating issues - as a type of issue - not that there is sudden traffic - Zorin is still more stable than Windows overall, it's just not running as smoothly and sure as it was before this week. lol Change is always something -

To put this in perspective - Windows and Rhino are on par - which means stable until the the curveball is thrown. Which is less stable than Zorin. So there is that.

The flaw in your logic is this:

You are claiming that your Isolated Experience speaks for everyone as a whole - or Zorin OS as a whole.
Your experience is valid. Your claim that it is the same for everyone is invalid and has no merit nor support.

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Never said what I observed applied to everyone - some systems will be smoother than others, I delve into many conflicting pieces of accounting hardware, due to different contract needs - my wife is the programmer in the family - software integration and usage from the user side has been my bread and butter. So I work almost all of this from the user mode but power in fashion with differing apps and programs open at once for data configuring and aiming - spreadsheets,etc.
So I agree with Aravisian, still I never mentioned my observation to include everybody.

Then you had Zero reason for your post:

I think your intended meaning must be; that your experience lately has been unstable.
That is valid and maybe we can help.

But from my observations, the vast majority of users have been enjoying a reliable and stable Zorin OS, self included.
I have had a couple of Nvidia issues - with the 535 driver, and with 6+ kernels. They are all Nvidia Driver related, though and I am using Nvidia Proprietary drivers.

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I understand that your frustrated by your system's state, but that is no reason to attack, put down or make negative comments in regards to volunteers/members of this forum. This is stated in the forum FAQ and Introduction to Hardware Support. Please refrain from this type of post.

The same can be said of your observations as you provide no details of how this occurred, what hardware you are on and any (if relevant) changes you made prior to the occurrences. If you would like to detail these, we may be able to resolve your issue.

There have been a few new threads lending to GPU, sound and wifi issues, but for the most part, the forum has been dead. I should know, I help moderate here.

I have been running Zorin 16 since the Alpha. Not once has an update caused the symptoms that you share. Any instability has been introduced by my own doing, especially when I went kernel surfing. Since everyone's hardware configuration is different (there is rarely anyone with the exact same hardware config) it is more than possible a driver is incorrect, a patch failed or any number of possibilities. Even a power user would attempt to find the source of the issue, if they couldn't fix it, and ask for assistance rather than put down software. Is this how you ask for help for your customers? Never mind, that's of no consequence.

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My hardware is just 12th gen i5 (10/12), Beelink board, 64 gig, etc. - per our last conversation. Everything has been fine now for most of three months now, I like the os enough that it is now on all seven home units. My ssd is also running a bit hotter this week as well since this last group, still not at old levels before the ssd switch, but it's actually touched 70 once or twice now. It's like the background is running more and freezes? Reboot and everything is fine, I tried windows in the early morning - nada - Rhino - nada (which is amazing - usually sneeze at it wrong and it crashes) Just Zorin. I'm sure I can get to the bottom of it, if I could get a clue of the why. Note - usually my ssd runs in the high 50s.

Separate issue - I was being neither rude or putting the man down, since in reviewing this conversation, I will say that was not a putdown but that his observation was an erroneous observation that was humorously pointed out. Nowhere did I declare my experience to be anyone else's. Also, I also volunteer-moderate several forums myself - one way larger than this, and it has never been asked of any member to watch what they said to a moderator over a member and what is being said to them by a moderator. Ridiculous. Nuff said.

You might start a thread in the feedback forum covering these issues in detail.
If we cannot help; at least the feedback may help improve the O.S. in time.

Well...
@zabadabadoo is a regular member, not a moderator. So if you are claiming some kind of bias here, you are way out of line and just flat out wrong.
As to the rest:

I will simply quote you directly:

So, if you would like to deny your behavior, let's go ahead and "check your 'tude".

Your statement was that "Zorin OS has become unstable." The response was that it is not for the majority of members and that you need to provide specific details.
You replied to that with an accusation of denial of @zabadabadoo.
Clearly, if you are not claiming that Zorin OS is unstable on the whole, then you would have Zero Reason to accuse another member of this forum of denial. Yet, you did just that. At no point did you clarify or retract those statements.
If you make a qualifying statement, then the onus is on you to support it.

Next, you made a rather vague threat:

In the Moderator forum, we have discussed and determined that you are skirting the guidelines rather than outright breaking them. Your posts are harsh and unnecessarily hostile, but not outright action-worthy.
To that end, our guided responses were to remind you to be civil, remind you of the guidelines and to remind you to take a logical and measured approach to your troubleshooting rather than sweeping generalizations.

Lastly:
The members of this forum volunteer time and dedication to help others. Members that speak abusively to them can ultimately discourage member participation in troubleshooting and helping. It is very important that all members feel well-treated and fair; safe to offer suggestions and solutions without having to worry about being abused for their efforts.
Any Member that speaks abusively toward any other member during the course of such gets the talk that you yourself have now earned.

Off-topic arguing now moved to separate thread. I am not closing this new thread just yet in order to allow you a chance to reconsider some of your accusations and positions.
You may have simply been mistaken as to @zabadabadoo 's role on the forum and you may have been misunderstood in your short statement of "Zorin OS Has become unstable" so a chance must be allowed for clarification and it be delivered with courteous decency.

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None of that is my intention, and reviewing the words - I have observed..... would have better served this conversation in the beginning. Thank you for bringing this to a separate topic. In whole none of what I said was meant to be abusive. If taken that way - please accept my apology. My observation - after three months of smooth running, there has been a flurry/noticeable increase in updates this last week. My first thought is gearing up for 17. Many software systems - when upgrading within the system - will lay out a series of updates that are foundational to the next step up, but may or may not affect/be a part of the current system. How these updates affect most systems is little, still....stuff happens. This will make you smile - it froze in an interesting way while playing a video - the picture froze, as mouse, and the sound was a word that kept being repeated. Another time I was reviewing apts, and freeze. two separate times. A reboot later, a timeshift, then an orderly re-updating and it's smooth again. However, on the next evening rinse and repeat. Today has been the smoothest day so far. Finished my chores in windows, and latest labbing with Rhino, leaving me a sunday with chores and Zorin breaks - lol

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I agree on this point, as well. There have been more updates. I cannot speculate as to why because that is kind of a thing that comes and goes throughout many stages of development cycles.

For me, constant crashing would drive me crazy. I would try checking the Graphics drivers; Display Manager / Gnome Shell as well as the Usual Culprits that get forgotten about - using Psensor to monitor temps (I recently had this issue and noticed that i was spiking at over 80 degrees c. Replaced my thermal paste and resolved this; now CPU averages nearer to 36 degrees). Fans/ heat sinks may need cleaning.
Corrupted files in ~/.config - and this can include an application that is installed repeatedly reasserting that file which may explain the timeshift fix failing after a short time.

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I may have been unable to use Zorin on real hardware on this last week, but my experience regarding stability was smooth even on a faulty laptop

Though, with what you guys are saying about recent updates, if I had to guess, there's a problem with an updated driver that is affecting some specific components, as I myself also got some freezing problems when I tried Zorin in a virtual machine with vmware just yesterday. The freezing was very constant with wayland, but x11 went fine for the little testing that I did. I couldn't manage to install the vmware tools so I guessed that had something to do with it

My theory as to what may be the reason for the so many updates that was mentioned here is that a few things started malfunctioning with one and the ones that follow are fixing those malfunctions one by one. This is not a statement, just a theory, but it may have something to do with the freezing that you are experiencing

Usually, updates bring stability and performance improvements, but those updates are made by humans, and humans are not perfect, so mistakes can happen. As a personal example, my first experience with Manjaro (up-to-date distro) had display problems with wayland, making the screen look like a huge mess of random pixels. Meanwhile Zorin (based on an older base, which means it's not too up-to-date in terms of software non-security updates) ran with wayland just fine. That proves a newer version can sometimes bring glitches that an old version didn't have. However, that doesn't mean all updates are bad, as that kind of problem doesn't usually happen. Some weeks ago, I tried the wayland desktop on Manjaro again with the same laptop, but with more recent packages and a higher kernel version, and the problem was fixed and ran even more smoothly than it did on Zorin (probably because of the higher kernel version and perhaps higher wayland version)

The conclusion I come up to (and if you have a different one I'm curious to know it) is that nothing will ever be 100% stable. You may get some OS that are more stable than others, but you will never be able to find one that will never get any stability issue. Not Windows, not Linux, not MacOS. None of them are perfect, and they never will be.

The very first thing you should do is ensure your hard drive's integrity. Often the machine will freeze because data either cannot be written to or read from a drive sector.

In my experience, what you're experiencing is a symptom of sectors starting to go bad on your drive... not a big deal if it's only a couple of them, a very big deal if it's a lot of them or they're on your MBR.

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I did a machine physical cleaning - on a beelink very simple. SSD is an American market lab-tested item, known to stay cool in the rougher Chinese corporate settings - a real find for cool running -
I did go to the lower latency kernel set back to default - things are now cooler


Tmpin0,1,2 are in the 50s.
Harddrive good. I have noticed that allowing one update smooths things, till the next wave - the weekend has been minimal, but two freeze/crashes happened. Still checking the rest though.

As far as this forum is concerned, most of the problems with Zorin OS are related to the following hardware. Otherwise, I think Zorin OS is rock solid.

  • Nvidia Graphics
  • Latest hardware
  • Hardware built into laptop (Wireless network, touchpad, etc.)
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The funny thing is how smooth it is on my high-end Yoga laptop - dual booting with Windows no less. It just does the Max Headroom thing with the simple modern Beelink - though last night through to now is smooth as silk - I did add four little rubber feet to the bottom for better airflow there - since that is the warmest area to the touch - result it is running a bit cooler there - high40s to low 50s - better than before which was mid 50s to 60plus. Of course cleaning, etc. all have contributed. Getting there.

Video and wifi drivers have been the most prominent in issues with the latest updates.

Some have found reinstalling drivers to be a solution, others have taken to reinstalling the OS. This usually resolved the issue since everything is initialized fresh. This can resolve RAM, video card and wifi issues at times. Either the update was corrupt during the installation or the drivers are loaded prior to the patched services, causing the issue.

With the amount of interconnectivity and dependency on timed loading of services and hardware, any update has the potential to break a system. Sometimes finding that source is impossible (just the reality of it).

After an update, try reinstalling the video and wifi card drivers. If that stops the crashing, you found the culprit and the Zorin's can attempt to mitigate this issue. If it doesn't resolve it, reinstalling the OS may be the only recourse. I have experienced that Ubuntu derivatives do not always overwrite files, if they exist on the drive, on update or reinstall. Formatting, with disk erasure will ensure the write operation of newer files.

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