Just managed to install ungoogled-Chromium using OBS from here:
onto Q4OS.
Sadly, the Debian package for Debian is for Sid not Bookworm so it launches, then crashes and if I try to sudo nano /etc/apt/sources.list I get a blank canvas when attempting to add sid repo!
I use qutebrowser as my main browser, but I had to make it in a venv as instructed on the website as the apt or the flatpak is too far behind. It has minor annoyances like for some reason it won't always show non roman character languages just boxes, and it's missing some codecs and to get them I would have to build the qtwebengine from source and it sounds like a less than charming activity. Also for some reason if you click on something in qutebrowser, Zorin behaves as if you also clicked a window that is open behind qutebrowser. Fortunately you rarely ever have need to click anything so that last one is not much of an issue and actually took several months before I even noticed it.
However the browser is possibly the best designed browser ever invented so I overlook some things. Interestingly enough the person that does qutebrowser was also involved in herbstluftwm, which is my favorite window manager.
Zorin has a browser called Vieb listed in the Software Store that I think looks similar to qutebrowser but I haven't gotten around to trying it yet. I only see it as a Flatpak. It's an Electron browser so I already know the reaction, but as I also work with Electron projects I will likely pooh pooh the usual objections....
Thanks for that LadyBird link. I wasn't aware of it at all, and am now interested.
For the time being, while I don't approve of Mozilla's change and their direction has been wrong for a long time, I'm personally aware enough to toggle off a lot of their suggestions/sponsored stuff/other data collection, and still consider it more tolerable than Chrome or Edge. Aravisian is right though that to some extent we're stuck with SOME browser, and none are really what they should be.
Because those users don't provide a source of income. Like it or not, Mozilla has to pay devs, and they've been hurting on browser share for ages. I'm emphatically NOT saying they're doing the right thing here--it's just going to hurt their share more--but users who refuse to be monetized don't matter to a business. Leave. They won't care, because they weren't going to make any money from you anyway.*
It comes down to something Aravisian said in another thread: free software needs to be paid for. If you're not paying, you're the product.
Of course, these days Big Tech is largely happy to let you pay and STILL be the product.
*There are exceptions to businesses not caring about non-paying customers, particularly in cases of network externalities, where having more users inherently increases the value of a service, besides word of mouth. For example, if five people in the world have a telephone, telephones aren't very useful. When everyone does, they're incredibly useful. See also D&D and Pathfinder providing their basic rules free, because more players makes it easier to find games, and finding games means selling more books. Browsers don't really enjoy this network effect. As long as they can render webpages, it doesn't matter to the user how many people use that browser; they're interchangeable.
Edit: One day I'll make a short post.
Why? 
Variety.
That's fraught with all sorts of issues.
Surely that can't hold up.
So if I use Firefox to log in to my work emails.
Then Firefox wants to claim ownership of any information that is sent through my emails? No way does that fly.
No company or Government organisation would use their browser again, just from the perspective of breach of confidentiality alone.
Thanks for flagging this with the community.
They only started to come up with other avenues of revenue when it was clear that their Google deal was close to come to an end. Things like their partnership with Mullvad VPN; a genuinely good idea with terrible timing and even worse execution.
Money has never been an issue for Mozilla. They fired ~300 employees while their CEO got a big fat $2 million bonus. It's just a poorly managed company.
I'm very interested in learning about how to do that! Please, tell me more!
I've started using Mulvad browser with DDG. The only issue so far is importing bookmarks and passwords (not important ones, and all different, randomly generated). So now I have ZEN and Mulvad. Still going to check out a few others but at least I'm up and running.
@swarfendor437 , thanks for sharing all that info above, there are some browsers I've not heard of before. I'm only really interested in non-chromium based browsers, although I'm sure a lot of members will have different views on that. I actually don't mind turning things off and customising settings, as long as they don't keep getting changed back with updates.
@Locklear93 , I'm not offended with what you're saying about users like me who won't be "monetized" not being missed, or cared about, but I do think that if droves of people stop using Firefox Mozilla will have to take note. I'm also disgusted that the CEO got such a huge bonus while employees lost their jobs. I really hope that losing so many users, whether they are monetized or not, will shake confidence in Mozilla and spur a rethink of strategies.
There's another issue that could cause a backlash against a push to creating new AI services in Mozilla: the energy costs. I'm not going to make a political post, just some observations: Canada is kicking back against the "new White House boss" and increased tariffs by making deals to sell its natural gas and crude oil to the UK, Europe and Asia (there are other deals being talked about too, as the UK and Canada are holding to the "spirit of the CETA agreement", even though the EU is yet to ratify it, and the UK has broken away from Europe with BREXIT. Norway has just announced it will no longer refuel US war ships, as a protest against the sickening and disrespectful, public treatment of Volodímir Zelenski last week. China is also hitting back by making new business deals and cutting out the USA. The world at large is turning against the USA and the new administration. As it's going to take until 2028 to get the nuclear power plant on Seven Mile Island into production, it could be difficult to produce enough energy to keep ploughing ahead with new AI projects, or even existing ones. Just my 10 cents.
Oh, rest assured, we're on the same page there. I frankly think CEO pay needs to be capped. I don't want to get into politics here as that's a quick way to get rapped on the knuckles, but CEO pay has gone up dramatically faster than worker pay, to an indefensible extent: Since 1978, 1,085% for CEOs vs. 24% for average workers. That's the more conservative number I found. Another was 1,322%.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/average-ceo-pay
As for AI energy costs... well, again, we need to stay out of politics, but if my 45 years on this planet have taught me anything, it's that people are stupid enough to act against their best interests, frequently. I don't see us getting off he messed up course we're on, frankly. I'd love to be proven wrong, but absolutely don't think I am. Humans are addicts to novelty and convenience. and as long as there are bread and circuses, nothing will change.
What you both have done is made statements that are accurate and factual - without taking, endorsing or promoting sides.
Yes, we want to avoid discussing politics; due to not only general forum etiquette and respectful treatment of eachother; But as we all know...
We are living in interesting times.
I think that there is a certain inevitability in how the interesting times can, must and will affect us all.
So the best rule of thumb is to adhere to your current practice: fair and balanced observations or accurately conveying cause and effect rather than opinion pieces and editorials.
Yes.
Just as above, GnuLinux and the computing world is beholden to and affected by energy production and use. I agree with you. The human trend is to act against the broader good when self interest is involved.
Let me give you an example: Sometime back, after being treated poorly and unfairly by Pling, I immediately withdrew from Pling. As one individual, I can make no difference.
But if others lend support... then we can. Recently, @Storm had a less stellar experience and posted he may withdraw from Pling.
For a moment; I held my breath. But the question was: Is the convenience and usability of Pling enough to retain Storm's loyalty? Is it fair or right for me to say anything to Storm?
In the end, I did make a comment - then stepped back to let Storm make choices.
This thread is similar. We all want to see Mozilla boycotted. But will people choose based on self interest? Or general interest?
And which - is not so easy. Because the reality is; energy production and usage is as much in our self interest.
And the reality is; Large Volumes of people are concerned and active about addressing these problems. We are not alone. It is not a small minority up against some massive selfish crowd. We are all subject to our human nature.
And that is not a bad thing.
I was failing high school. Freshman - sophomore years - all D's and F's.
Start of Junior year followed my self absorbed trend. I failed High School Physics class first semester. I did not like math - and physics was just another math class.
My Physics teacher stopped me leaving class one day and he gave me a speech. The usual. "You're smart. You can do this. You can do better."
Blah Blah.
But something in my head gave out. When I got home and pulled the homework out, I noticed two distinct things.
With the physics; I could rearrange an equation to find the value of other unknown values - which the power of blew my mind at the time.
And that I could track my GPA, by the week or even by the day, with each assignment.
I tried it out. With each assignment, I calculated what it did to improve my GPA right after.
I went from "far off in some future a might maybe" to "Tangible results I could see right now."
I watched as an effort had a result- a grade began to climb.
Then I started applying this to other classes. History. English. Geometry.
And I discovered that I Loved Math. It never lies. It leads straight and true.
Projects and extra credit allowed me to advance that climbing GPA more, so I began seeking those out, not caring about grades or report cards or teachers opinions of me - Only that increasing GPA.
By the end of the year, I had A's - in every class. And that Physics teacher - gave me an A for the whole year grade.
Hit Senior year - same tactic. Honors classes and AP, straight A's. Qualified to attend College courses while in high school. (Which I did: UC Berkeley and UC Davis).
So, you see the truth; I did care about my grades. I just needed the right impetus to overcome my lack of ability to really think long term. And people do care about quality in products, personal privacy and energy production, too.
And this can be applied in other ways, just as moving the variables in an equation. Just as what worked in Physics class worked in History class just as well.
@Aravisian , that's a truly inspirational story, thanks for sharing. I appreciate it even more as a teacher... I believe that there is a key to unlocking every individual's potential, the difficult thing is finding it. So many of my students see "the future" and the rewards as so far off. If only they knew! I don't know. "You can't put an old head on young shoulders." They need to realise it for themselves.
Not to get too far off topic, I do try to raise awareness of the larger picture in my classes. Social responsibility can be woven into so many subjects and lessons, but "monkey see, monkey do" is a truth we all must accept, and ensure our actions speak as loud as our words.
Is the Firefox Result with the disconnected Telemetry what You can turn off in the Settings or without?
Your story reminded me of my HND in Business Studies - Finance Stream. I was off ill for 2 weeks with 'flu' and I missed the classes on Chi-squared (shadow cost method to work out the cheapest transportation route). I just couldn't get my head round it. I looked through my text books I purchased with my student grant and found a much easier method, Vogel's Approximation Method. When I returned from my illness the excellent Statistics teacher asked me to share with the class. Good times.
Odd. I've been using Vivaldi on Linux for over a year. Never had a problem. Don't know why we've had such divergent experiences.
I've never done this myself as I never created an account with Mozilla, but you can see all the details about it in this repository:
Speaking for myself, I'm not trying to boycott Mozilla, I simply find the new terms unacceptable. But I do think it's in everyone's interest to get the corrupt, incompetent leadership at Mozilla out of the picture as soon as possible. Firefox is a fine product, it deserves better.
Likewise. A boycott is a means to an end. If a boycott is necessary, fine, but it's not what I want. I want the end: Firefox, or some browser, not stinking.
...man this forum's default censor is hyperactive.
Yes my thoughts exactly. Say you open Play Console with Firefox. You create a new project or go to update an existing one and drag an app bundle in to upload. You just granted Mozilla rights to your project now? What on earth?
Tutorial on how to install ungoogled-chromium for Zorin and Debian here:
I discovered that the OBS is no longer maintained/updated.
Thanks, @zenzen . I'll check that out this coming weekend.
Actually, as I understand the word: boycott, that is exactly what we're trying to do. To show our disapproval, we stop using a product, or buying produce from a country (company), until they change their path and we can approve of that by resuming our relationship with them. I believe it worked quite well against South Africa and helped to force the government away from apartheid (don't quote me on that as a fact - I have family there who suffered due to their "association with coloured people", who suffered dreadfully themselves). It's a generation removed but it's a "known thing" that has worked in the past.
Microsoft is too big a company to really feel the sting of a boycott, but Mozilla isn't. The next couple of month will show if one: users leave in droves as a protest of the forced, and deeply unpopular changes. Two: they do a U-turn and backtrack to their previously user-friendly, "we won't sell your data" and the blanket cover-all: "When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox." insert your favourite expletive here. Here's hoping, because we really need Mozilla to upkeep a viable alternative to Chrome-based browsers.
Same. If we use the product while expressing disapproval, then Mozilla has Zero Impetus to change their policy.
Only be removing use does it affect them; only their bottom line will get their interest.
It surprised me a bit when a couple posts suddenly pulled back at the mention of the word boycott.
What?
Ok... so... let's encourage still using the product while unhappy with the terms and conditions?
What do you want, then?
Nope.
Nope.
Mozilla is on my utter blacklist. Boycott. They can fail. Fall. Collapse.
Go out of business. Go apply at Microsoft, work for Lennart Poettering.
No Mercy.