The newest Ubuntu, 24....someone's not happy

@swarfendor437 In GhostBSD,FreeBSD,OpenBSD the installation only your hardware and every time when you on your pc it creating every time
unique kernel.

One way in which companies like Microsoft, Google, etc., have caused a lot of damage, knowingly or otherwise, is by setting really high standards while creating an expectation that everything must come for free, and with deadlines.
People have come to expect top-notch quality and functionality right out of the box at no cost to them, no matter what. They don't care for excuses such as "people volunteering their free time" or "non-profit organizations with limited budget".

This is indeed one of the hardest problems to solve in open source software. For the Linux desktop in particular, the two main competitors are multi trillion dollar companies. In contrast, one of the bigger players in the Linux desktop space is struggling to stay on budget, even after recently receiving funding for a relatively large amount, €1 million.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should ask Microsoft or Google to make their products worse just so that the Linux desktop can catch up. Competition is great for the consumer, but when the consumer only sees what's right in front of them, there's a lot to be missed. And, unfortunately, this promotes a "give me everything I want, exactly how I want it or I'm out the door" attitude.


You have excellent choices without systemd if you dislike it : gentoo, Void, Devuan, and more ...

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Devuan is not truly systemd free as it still has elogind. For accurate and relatively current OS's that are systemd free you need to look here:

Also just stumbled on this gem:

However, it fails in its list of systemd free OS's by including Devuan.

It is clear that elogind has been extracted from systemd;

When a question was raised about the use of elogind when Devuan is allegedly free of all things systemd they were banned from the forum. Even Gentoo makes reference to elogind, as does Alpine Linux, Artix Linux.
I have only found so far an OS that works for me that is free of systemd and elogind is PCLinuxOS. And I have since discovered that virt-manager, my previously preferred VM software has dependencies of systemd and now led me to revert to VirtualBox which comes pre-installed as part of PCLinuxOS.

That is nice antiX i saw is very popular,Kiss and Venom but Venom what I remember is LFS.

As I understood it, elogind is an independent project providing a replacement for systemd's logind for use in non-systemd systems, rather than being an extraction from systemd.

Extracts from elogind github page:


... Elogind was branched from systemd version 219, and preserves the git history of the systemd project. The version of elogind is the upstream systemd version, followed by the patchlevel of elogind. For example version 219.12 is the twelfth elogind release, which aims to provide a subset of the interfaces of systemd 219. ...

Why bother?

Elogind has been developed for use in Guix System, the OS distribution of GNU Guix. See GNU Guix transactional package manager and distribution β€” GNU Guix for more on Guix. Guix System uses a specific init manager (GNU Shepherd), for reasons that are not relevant here, but still aims to eventually be a full-featured distribution that can run GNOME and other desktop environments. However, to run GNOME these days means that you need to have support for the login1 D-Bus interface, which is currently only provided by systemd. That is the origin of this project: to take the excellent logind functionality from systemd and provide it as a standalone package.

You're welcome to use elogind for whatever purpose you like -- as-is, or as a jumping-off point for other things -- *but please don't use it as part of some anti-systemd vendetta. We are appreciative of the systemd developers logind effort and think that everyone deserves to run it if they like. No matter what kind of PID1 they use."

*I, of course, beg to differ, as it is a distraction. They clearly state it as a subset of the upstream systemd, and give credit to systemd devs. Not on my machine Jose!

[Source: GitHub - elogind/elogind: The systemd project's "logind", extracted to a standalone package]

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Isn't this similar to what MXLinux is doing, where they are using a drop-in replacement for systemd that acts as if systemd was in use to allow for programs that need it?

Oh, btw... I'm sure not a lot of folks are going to like this one:

Well, there is a lot of folks on different distros already who don't approve of 'sudo', preferring 'su' to keep the system secure. I am surprised Lennart has not called it ’ruin0’, after all he was crazy enough to call a running pulse audio service 'rtkit'! :scream:

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Apparently the name is because of the keyboard layout; typing "run0" is somewhat similar to typing "sudo".

I think sudo is an acceptable tradeoff between security and convenience. The criticism of SUID binaries is understandable, but exploiting it already requires elevated privileges which makes this a bit pointless to a carry out. And while the configuration for sudo is a bit weird, is not that difficult to understand either.

Another of the advertised features of run0 is that it will change the color of the shell while running commands. This is nice to have, but not something that is groundbreaking either. If I'm not mistaken, the new Cosmic terminal will have this by default.

Overall, I personally would prefer to use doas, and of course su to do whatever needs to be done and then drop down to regular user account.

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su in PCLinuxOS already does change colour, and as in all things, "Why fix what ain't broke?"

The 1 mio. € are binded to specific Projects as far as I understand that Funding. So, they cannot use this for the normal daily Stuff.

I particularly liked the advert for Ultimate E Linux offering "Daily updates that work, sort of"! :rofl:

Precisely, which is why I'm not so much in favor of this tool. Is nice to have, and it's too early to tell, but I hope distributions don't start following suit just because it's systemd.

That's true; what I'm getting at is that Gnome is one of the biggest and better funded projects in the Linux desktop space, and yet they have trouble keeping the lights on. This is in dire contrast to the deep pockets that companies like Microsoft have at their disposal. All things considered, I think the Linux desktop has done an excellent job at keeping up with the industry standards.


Money makes the World a bit easier, haha!

But it is an interesting Situation: Theoretically Gnome has Money but they can't use it easily. Imagine Gnome would be broke and the Project disappears ... That would be a BIG Thing.


I don't think it would just disappear overnight like that, but yeah, it would be a bad thing. But they do have their hands tied at the moment... that's economics for you :man_shrugging:

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It would be a great thing. The user desktop could be permitted to return to the User Controls instead of Developer Control.

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Not for People, who use it. When it would be gone, the People must find another Desktop Environment. There are other Options, yes. But when You have found something what works for You and then this disappears and You have to orientate new and the other Stuff doesn't fit really to You and the Way how You use it, You have a Problem.

When the Project really would be broke and disappear, there is nothing what could go to the Users.

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While I don't agree with all of the decisions that Gnome makes, judging it by the merits of the technology alone, after using it almost exclusively for a few years in my main machines, my experience has been mostly positive.
Competing projects like Cinnamon, or the upcoming Cosmic, wouldn't exist without it. For better or worse, their decision making has lead to more choices available to the end user. This has to count for something.

I'm not convinced that Gnome going away would fix all the problems around the Linux desktop sovereignty. There are others pushing for similar agendas, but users would have less to choose from.
Although I certainly would prefer things being differently, especially in regards to the incessant push for Flatpak and Wayland. But I don't think this is the end of the world, either. I hope I'm not wrong about this...


I noticed that part of the funding was for accessibility. This is a joke when they removed plain background colours which is what people with low vision need and some users are colour deficient. KDE still has plain colours as a background option.