Whether it is Software or a Car... Those that develop and create it need to be paid.
Breaking it down to a cost per unit smacks of explaining it away, to me. Because the reality of it is that pricing will be different between a Soft Supply and Hard Supply. But the purpose of each is to ensure that those who do the job - Get Paid.
When enough people explain away stealing software, they are making it harder on those who legitimately pay. They are making it harder on the developers trying to earn a living so that they can afford to pay for software, cars, food...
Start at the car or start at the software - when you reach the end creator, you reach the Same Outcome. The engineer or the developer - someone is not getting paid. Someone was cheated. Someones job will be on the line.
And a lot more people steal software than cars.
Because they like to convince themselves it is a victimless crime. It isn't, at all. It is even made harder by the tech shortage.
This isn't me attacking you. Rather, I am shining a spotlight on some views expressed. The beauty of conversing is to test our ideas and assumptions for merit - to see if they hold value... Or belong in the trash can.
I mean... personally I consider this all a result of the fact that capitalism is a fundamentally flawed way to handle resource distribution and basically incompatible with simple concepts of "fairness" and "individual rights." That's likely outside the scope of the ideas this forum is for, but no view held by anyone exists in isolation - I'm not certain your implication (assuming I've read your comment correctly) that my views are metaphorically garbage is coming from as informed an overview of those views as would be required to make such a judgment, but I recognize that your right to make statements on this platform supersedes mine.
For the record, me describing the reasons behind piracy is not me endorsing piracy. Just describing it. And it definitely wasn't calling it victimless - just stating why it is different from car theft. Fundamentally if these people have no money to give for a thing, then they have no money to buy that thing, regardless of their ability to copy an instance of it for personal use. What the developer of that thing loses is a potential sale, but only assuming the money to make that sale was there and simply unused or that pirating the software makes the user somehow unable to purchase it in the future. If the file was shared by someone to someone else then the developer isn't even out hosting costs. What you pay for with Zorin is service... and unless I'm missing something pirating Zorin doesn't actually provide that. The fact the pro version is pirated at all is, at least as far as business costs go, such a misunderstanding of what the $40 is for that it's basically free advertising (which, being advertising, is worth admittedly basically nothing) and something of an indicator that the market for Zorin OS is pretty strong.
A moralistic "people just want stuff for free" is the same ideological fuel that leads to crippling social safety nets out of some pathological terror at the prospect of accidentally helping someone a little more than you think they deserve. Few and far between are the people who would steal bread for the thrill of stealing bread. Jailing the bread thief neither feeds the thief nor pays the baker - something went wrong long before the bread was stolen. Yes, the baker hurts, of course - but I'd argue that he hurts more from the theft because of the same things that created the environment where bread theft occurred (i.e. wage slavery and a complete lack of social safety nets) than he hurts from the loss of a loaf. The system makes theft both incentivized (the highest profit margin the free market can provide will always be to those who cheat and get away with it) and worse for all parties.
"You wouldn't download a car" is practically a cultural touchstone about how ridiculous most people find DRM and copyright protection (or abuse) at this point. If corporations could have some employee write a bit of code and then charge rent for it every day from now until the heat death of the universe, they absolutely would - that's why using the free Zorin feels cheaty: not because it's theft, but because I'd love to support the free samples the baker is giving and I just can't really afford to buy an actual loaf.
InkTide, you make some strong points about how wage disparity, cultural issues and elitism can cause theft. I have pointed out on other topics that the word in Spanish is "Desperado".
But the argument that a person "cannot afford to buy Pro means they may pirate it" falls down on its face in light of the fact that Zorin OS Education, Lite and Core are all Free.
ZorinGroup provides a Free Operating System to anyone who needs or wants it.
Bear in mind that the development time for Zorin OS 16 was over a year and a half - that only includes the time they devoted to it; Not the prep work. A year and a half - of Hard work, with only one break at Christmas time.
I agree that many societies must confront wage gaps and poverty.
It is interesting how Cheap Products break down far easier and more quickly... The Poorer spend more on replacing cheap goods (blenders, food processors, electronics) than wealthier people who can afford to buy Long-Lasting Quality right off the bat.
But we cannot confront or combat these disparities by committing crimes against eachother.
I would also like to state that all software from Zorin OS Pro 16 can be freely downloaded in the other verisions of Zorin OS Core, Lite, and Education. So if I may ask why pirate something and get a fake copy when you can download all the software in Zorin OS Pro 16 from the software store in Zorin OS Core, Lite, and Education. The whole point of pirating something (not saying pirating is okay), is because you can't access that software without purchasing it. I belive in Zorin OS Core, Lite, and Education this is not the case. You have the same access to the same software from Zorin OS Pro 16 as in the other verisons of Zorin OS Core, Lite, and Education. The only difference is in Zorin OS Pro 16 it comes prebundled veruses in the other verisons you have to download it manually. So your argument for the reason to priate is a opinion not based on the reality of the situation. I am want you to know I am trying to understand where your coming from and that I am not attacking you on this. Maybe you could enlighten me on why you think thiers a need to pirate software that is allready freely downloadalbe in all Zorin OS verisons. Becuase I am not seeing the point holding up or having enough relvancy to be true.
Before the exchange of currency, there was the barter system. But as long as you have humans who are emotional, and not in control of their own emotions, they would feel jealousy if you had something they wanted, and would try to steal it. Just as people do today.
So even in the days of barter, there was crime back then. Of course, it was a lot harder to catch those criminals back then, you had to rely on word getting back to another town, that someone is selling your stolen wears in the other town.
These days, with the connection of the internet, and cameras on every cell phone, security camera's on buildings, you aint getting away with jack sheeet when it comes to that. But when it comes to intellectual properties of a software nature, thats when you need lawyers.
It's not an argument, it's an acknowledgment of a possibility that exists and the reasons that it does. What I'm getting at is the issue of software piracy is caused by issues bigger than what we can solve here - apart from playing whack-a-mole with reuploaders and/or crippling your own software with DRM, the latter of which is not going to happen here without some staggering abandonment of ZorinOS's design philosphy. There's really no way to make it truly impossible, so unless the underlying causes are addressed (namely convenience - like I said before though, in Zorin Pro's case you're not even getting convenience, I find it hilarious that anyone would think to pirate it when the core of the OS is given out for free, but I can understand why someone more involved in the organization would find that less amusing than insulting/upsetting), it's a side effect of the fact that unlike cars and bread loaves, the buyer can make copies essentially for free. Unless you mean "may" in the "is allowed" sense rather than the "is possible" sense, in which case that is not an argument I have made and not an argument I will likely ever make.
Another component here is the "freemium" model, but that too has similar root economic causes: the freemium model has created a software environment and culture that is so categorically stingy and abusive to its own userbase that "premium" or "pro" features have been getting pirated out of spite (and because they are increasingly just parts of the core experience being cut out and sold separately for total sums that are beyond the scope of what people can afford; see Sims 4 DLC and the DLC model ParadoxPlaza used to use). I think Zorin Pro showing up on pirating sites is just ZorinOS's very fair premium model getting hit in the crossfire of that erosion of what "premium" means.
I like this in principle. Unfortunately the people responsible for these disparities have a great deal of overlap with those who decide what counts as committing crimes, and they can and will (and have, historically) adjust those definitions to protect themselves and their advantaged position. But again, more of a broad systemic issue - I do agree that software piracy in general is not contributing to remedying these disparities.
I want to be clear here, as soon as I figure out whether or not the balenaEtcher the official installation instructions linked to bricked the 32GB SanDisk Cruzer I've been using for over a decade, I intend to purchase the pro version, because I respect this OS and I respect the people behind it. Maybe I'll make a thread about that balenaEtcher issue first, though... I think it might have corrupted the firmware somehow.
Popsicle also works for me, and comes with POP OS, but I am sure it will also install for other Ubuntu based OS's.
I couldn't agree more, it absolutely makes no sense to pirate, especially when you can already get the CORE and Lite versions for free. But if someone really wants the extra apps, extra layouts, and especially if they want to support the devs, they can do so by buying PRO.
Actually, you are getting a lot of convenience. With Pro, you get layouts configured already and ready to use. You get all the apps without having to research or install - or figure out what type of installation you want - as well as having it meshed well so there are no conflicts.
I point this out for fairness. But I agree with your statement about it being laughable that others may pirate it; though you go on to say:
Very well said.
I am sorry for overlaying meaning onto your words. Yes, I worded that poorly.
When I try to keep posts short or am in a hurry - I may do that and it is wise to stay wary of it.
Your observation skills are worthwhile. Yes, privileged positions often lead to a disparity not only in crime, but in enforcement, punishment and in re-enforcing a bias that leads to justification for committing further crimes.
Allow me to take the above example and apply a distortion.
You see, in the sciences, I have learned that sometimes, to clear away a biased perspective, replacing a respected Item with an absurdity can make a profound impact on perceptions. For example, replace "Big Foot" with "Chocolate cheez-whiz snorting space dragon" and then repeat the arguments to see if it changes the impact.
You point out that software can be copied and therefor, this makes it less tangible a crime than stealing a car is.
Let's replace software with uhhh... Something I could take the initial version of and then make a copy of ... hmmm. How about a
...Car.
You see, as a Classic Car Mechanic, I often confront restoration projects for which there are no modern parts available. Fenders. Body parts. Ball joints. Control arms. Even Engine parts.
If you have ever used a lathe- then you know it is the only machine that currently exists on Earth capable of making a complete Duplicate of itself. I got me some of those.
I make car parts when I need to - body parts when I need to - I am capable of taking a car and Replicating it. Right down to the Maker Emblem on the hood.
It's not as easy as making a copy of say - test answers.
Or maybe a song.
Or a book.
Or copies of Money (Called Counterfeit.)
Wrong - is still wrong. And while it is true that there is disparity in the world, Here, we choose not to behave that way.
It is true that there is much wrong in the world, here we choose to Combat it. To try our very best To Do What Is Right. No matter how twisted others may be.
We stand without hate, or justification or excuses.
8:46, baby.
I am watching the video now. I love how the guy thinks he's old, cause he was in high school, when Windows10 came out. Its like, dude, you don't know what old is!
I've operated and used an Apple II computer, I've played an Atari Gaming system. I've used Windows since Windows 3.1 For Workgroups. Now that is what I call old.
I already don't like the guy and I am at the 2 minute mark in the video paused to type this message! I will continue watching, but I hope this freaking pirate gets a nice little cease and dissist message from the Zorin brothers!
And have it end with. And if you don't cease, we will sue you in court.
Lol... Old is a DEC PDP 2 or graduated to the DEC PDP 11/94 in the late 80's.. I still have an original acoustic 300 baud Cheetah modem with the rainbow external RS232 ribbon cable! I'm that old.. from Vic 20 to the Amiga 1000 from IBM PC jr to todays latest AMD 5950x. AS/400 to Titanium to HP-UX I've done seen repaired em all. Dell HP Compaq IBM. Put in more data centers and SANs from EMC to HP 2000 to the old IBM Shark! Lol old... Stay frosty..
Yep, I pride myself on the fact that I have had a chance in life to use old tech from the 80's. AGREED, stay frosty and alert, cause we can't afford to let one of those barftards in here.
Thats because you were only born 14-years ago, and you've missed so much stuff, that your only just now, starting to learn about. The greater you braudan your horizons, the more you learn, the more you experience, and the wiser you get in time.
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