Zorin pro being pirated

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67

That does kinda make sense - they're still doing a service by providing physical media, and in the case of Zorin that physical media is itself a useful tool (I've used Zorin bootable USBs to recover files from a computer with a corrupted/non-booting hard drive before).

I always like to keep a bootable device on hand for recovery.

As for pirating... I only ever do it if a) I'm deciding whether or not to purchase something, which happens very rarely these days thanks to user reviews largely making demos obsolete or b) I can't actually afford to buy the software. The alternative to me pirating is never me buying the product - it's me ignoring the product altogether and never even considering paying for it.

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This nails it, really.
It kinda makes sense.

It's not for me. Something about it doesn't sit right with me. And if I can't make my own bootable USB stick... Plus, I'd rather spend $20 for my own USB stick than $30 or $40.

If we replace "software" with "car" - Would you still steal it?

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I would absolutely download a car. Would I steal someone's physical car? No, because the cost of creating a new car vs the cost of creating a new copy of software is fundamentally different. Buying software is more like real estate where the owner makes a large upfront development investment and then sells temporary access to a part of that investment for (usually recurring) fees. Some of that investment is recurring for dev costs and building maintenance for example, but there is little to no cost per "unit" delivered. If you find a way to make access affordable and convenient... you don't have a piracy problem outside the people who legitimately never had money to give you in the first place.

Preventing piracy completely doesn't really change anything except make me unlikely to ever try or consider a product - it's not like putting a lock on the program magically grants me the money I'd need to buy it. Because If I can afford to buy it, buying it is what I do.

This gets a little muddier with donations, as in the case of Zorin I am really not certain it's a good idea for me personally to pay $40 given the amount of money in my accounts and my status as an unemployed dependent who couldn't quite finish his CS degree for mental health (and US higher education greed/incompetence) reasons. I'd also never pirate Zorin when I can just install the Zorin pro suite of software on the free version (although doing that still kinda feels like cheating Zorin somehow, even if it's more like paying to support an idea rather than for the "privilege" of the "pro experience" like how most software companies organize their consumer relationships).

70

You know what I don't really get? Is software that is sold in the professional industry. So you have your innitial cost for Adobe Premire, what is it 600 whopping dollars? But the costs dont' stop there!

Now, you got to pay like monthly or yearly fees just to keep the software supported and updated, and continue having the ability to have the right, to use services regarding the software that you innitially bought, for 600 dollars.

Now I ask, do you think that is right? I personally do not, and I think its a perfect example of unfettered capitalism, or form of monopoly. Professionals in the business will pay the outragious costs, cause they have thousands of dollars to burn.

Take Linus Tech Tips as a perfect example. Last I checked, he had a multi-million net worth, a company size of 58 people. For him, he can easily afford to eat the cost. But just cause you are loaded in money, and can afford to pay, and pay, and pay some more, still don't make it right.

This is another reason why I am a big fan of open source software on Linux. We don't operate on the platform of, feed us, feed us some more, feed us till the day you die mentality. And that is why Linux will always be different then companies like Microsoft and Adobe.

Ripley and Aliens said it best. "You know Burke, I'm not sure which species is worst, but at least you don't see them foooking each other over a GD percentage."

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71

You nailed it again.

Whether it is Software or a Car... Those that develop and create it need to be paid.

Breaking it down to a cost per unit smacks of explaining it away, to me. Because the reality of it is that pricing will be different between a Soft Supply and Hard Supply. But the purpose of each is to ensure that those who do the job - Get Paid.
When enough people explain away stealing software, they are making it harder on those who legitimately pay. They are making it harder on the developers trying to earn a living so that they can afford to pay for software, cars, food...
Start at the car or start at the software - when you reach the end creator, you reach the Same Outcome. The engineer or the developer - someone is not getting paid. Someone was cheated. Someones job will be on the line.

And a lot more people steal software than cars.

Because they like to convince themselves it is a victimless crime. It isn't, at all. It is even made harder by the tech shortage.
This isn't me attacking you. Rather, I am shining a spotlight on some views expressed. The beauty of conversing is to test our ideas and assumptions for merit - to see if they hold value... Or belong in the trash can.

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I mean... personally I consider this all a result of the fact that capitalism is a fundamentally flawed way to handle resource distribution and basically incompatible with simple concepts of "fairness" and "individual rights." That's likely outside the scope of the ideas this forum is for, but no view held by anyone exists in isolation - I'm not certain your implication (assuming I've read your comment correctly) that my views are metaphorically garbage is coming from as informed an overview of those views as would be required to make such a judgment, but I recognize that your right to make statements on this platform supersedes mine.

73

Wow.

And that ends this discussion.

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I read through these topics both to help and possibly enlighten, though i admit I'm far from the most knowledgeable person. I see disagreement constantly... and a lot of people take it personally. If we take a step back and focus on the logic, try to understand the perspective, you soon realize that the majority aren't focused towards any one person, but the idea. We take it personally because of our perspective.

This is not true. Everyone here has equal right to express themselves as long as they aren't attacking anyone. No one person has any more right than any other.

Misinterpretation and taking things personally cause this.

This is what was done. There are two perspectives that don't mesh.

Many on this forum, me included, have used the car metaphor to attempt to relay that no right to the next major version is given because you purchased it once.

You may think it more akin to this though:

InkTide, whatever profession you are in, would you expect to do any of it for free? Aravisian is a mechanic, do you think he shouldn't be paid for upgrading a vehicle with a better carburetor, exhaust and chipping it... making a more powerful version of that vehicle.

I went to school for computers, got my mcsa and a few other certifications, should i not be paid for my knowledge and the experience since then that allows me to diagnose more quickly than those getting out of school or don't want to bother learning it?

I don't know why software is considered a gray area when it comes to purchasing. Because it isn't physically tangible, except the medium it is stored on, it doesn't really exist? How many years would it take you to create this quality of software?

The purpose of this topic was to allow for conversation of the pirating idea... mindset... and offer perspectives. The members and moderators of this forum believe in this software and take a firm position against Software Piracy, because it is already freely offered. Pirating the pro version for any reason is a deliberate disrespect to the developers and their knowledge that has made this the fastest Ubuntu variant to date. Linux mint and pop os right behind it.

There are no personal attacks listed in what i read above and I'm sorry you see it that way InkTide. Aravisian even agreed with you on many things. It was a sharing of information and perspective.

This forum is run by volunteers that freely share information, skill and perspective in a respectful manner. We are proud of this achievement because it is a difficult balance and can be tough not to take things personally. Please refrain from attacking members for this is counterproductive. Confront ideas, provide supporting arguments, but do not take it or make it personal... it's not.

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75

For the record, me describing the reasons behind piracy is not me endorsing piracy. Just describing it. And it definitely wasn't calling it victimless - just stating why it is different from car theft. Fundamentally if these people have no money to give for a thing, then they have no money to buy that thing, regardless of their ability to copy an instance of it for personal use. What the developer of that thing loses is a potential sale, but only assuming the money to make that sale was there and simply unused or that pirating the software makes the user somehow unable to purchase it in the future. If the file was shared by someone to someone else then the developer isn't even out hosting costs. What you pay for with Zorin is service... and unless I'm missing something pirating Zorin doesn't actually provide that. The fact the pro version is pirated at all is, at least as far as business costs go, such a misunderstanding of what the $40 is for that it's basically free advertising (which, being advertising, is worth admittedly basically nothing) and something of an indicator that the market for Zorin OS is pretty strong.

A moralistic "people just want stuff for free" is the same ideological fuel that leads to crippling social safety nets out of some pathological terror at the prospect of accidentally helping someone a little more than you think they deserve. Few and far between are the people who would steal bread for the thrill of stealing bread. Jailing the bread thief neither feeds the thief nor pays the baker - something went wrong long before the bread was stolen. Yes, the baker hurts, of course - but I'd argue that he hurts more from the theft because of the same things that created the environment where bread theft occurred (i.e. wage slavery and a complete lack of social safety nets) than he hurts from the loss of a loaf. The system makes theft both incentivized (the highest profit margin the free market can provide will always be to those who cheat and get away with it) and worse for all parties.

"You wouldn't download a car" is practically a cultural touchstone about how ridiculous most people find DRM and copyright protection (or abuse) at this point. If corporations could have some employee write a bit of code and then charge rent for it every day from now until the heat death of the universe, they absolutely would - that's why using the free Zorin feels cheaty: not because it's theft, but because I'd love to support the free samples the baker is giving and I just can't really afford to buy an actual loaf.

76

InkTide, you make some strong points about how wage disparity, cultural issues and elitism can cause theft. I have pointed out on other topics that the word in Spanish is "Desperado".
But the argument that a person "cannot afford to buy Pro means they may pirate it" falls down on its face in light of the fact that Zorin OS Education, Lite and Core are all Free.
ZorinGroup provides a Free Operating System to anyone who needs or wants it.
Bear in mind that the development time for Zorin OS 16 was over a year and a half - that only includes the time they devoted to it; Not the prep work. A year and a half - of Hard work, with only one break at Christmas time.

I agree that many societies must confront wage gaps and poverty.
It is interesting how Cheap Products break down far easier and more quickly... The Poorer spend more on replacing cheap goods (blenders, food processors, electronics) than wealthier people who can afford to buy Long-Lasting Quality right off the bat.
But we cannot confront or combat these disparities by committing crimes against eachother.

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77

I can understand that view. But it's not just one sale that is lost. There are thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands that look at it that way... and pirate... and share with their friends the pirated version... and their friends. One sale quickly escalates... no worse than capitalism or communism... the creator loses, dearly while being used by the pirates.

I don't care to be used and will not make any other feel that way. I also don't like to be called or thought of as a thief, so i refuse that. It's a matter of choice and respect. To respect oneself and others, you have to raise yourself above what others are willing to do and not permit or endorse it. Justifying it may as well be enabling if not endorsing. My perspective.

This is also far from advertising since the only thing others that hear of the successful pirated version is pirate... it doesn't bring the developer anything but grief, missed opportunity and possibly his/her own ruin.

I suppose if everything was free this would eliminate a lot of these problems... but you'd still have those with and those without, wanting.

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79

I would also like to state that all software from Zorin OS Pro 16 can be freely downloaded in the other verisions of Zorin OS Core, Lite, and Education. So if I may ask why pirate something and get a fake copy when you can download all the software in Zorin OS Pro 16 from the software store in Zorin OS Core, Lite, and Education. The whole point of pirating something (not saying pirating is okay), is because you can't access that software without purchasing it. I belive in Zorin OS Core, Lite, and Education this is not the case. You have the same access to the same software from Zorin OS Pro 16 as in the other verisons of Zorin OS Core, Lite, and Education. The only difference is in Zorin OS Pro 16 it comes prebundled veruses in the other verisons you have to download it manually. So your argument for the reason to priate is a opinion not based on the reality of the situation. I am want you to know I am trying to understand where your coming from and that I am not attacking you on this. Maybe you could enlighten me on why you think thiers a need to pirate software that is allready freely downloadalbe in all Zorin OS verisons. Becuase I am not seeing the point holding up or having enough relvancy to be true.

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80

@InkTide I'm actually surprised to hear you talk this way of piracy after reading your tirade regarding qc, qa and game testers not being fairly compensated for their contributions.

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81

Before the exchange of currency, there was the barter system. But as long as you have humans who are emotional, and not in control of their own emotions, they would feel jealousy if you had something they wanted, and would try to steal it. Just as people do today.

So even in the days of barter, there was crime back then. Of course, it was a lot harder to catch those criminals back then, you had to rely on word getting back to another town, that someone is selling your stolen wears in the other town.

These days, with the connection of the internet, and cameras on every cell phone, security camera's on buildings, you aint getting away with jack sheeet when it comes to that. But when it comes to intellectual properties of a software nature, thats when you need lawyers.

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82

People with common sense and a strong morale compass would work well to... but greed has taken the world by storm.

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83

This is correct, as GREED is the root of all evil. :frowning_face:

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And pride... but i won't get into that with you... lol

85

It's not an argument, it's an acknowledgment of a possibility that exists and the reasons that it does. What I'm getting at is the issue of software piracy is caused by issues bigger than what we can solve here - apart from playing whack-a-mole with reuploaders and/or crippling your own software with DRM, the latter of which is not going to happen here without some staggering abandonment of ZorinOS's design philosphy. There's really no way to make it truly impossible, so unless the underlying causes are addressed (namely convenience - like I said before though, in Zorin Pro's case you're not even getting convenience, I find it hilarious that anyone would think to pirate it when the core of the OS is given out for free, but I can understand why someone more involved in the organization would find that less amusing than insulting/upsetting), it's a side effect of the fact that unlike cars and bread loaves, the buyer can make copies essentially for free. Unless you mean "may" in the "is allowed" sense rather than the "is possible" sense, in which case that is not an argument I have made and not an argument I will likely ever make.

Another component here is the "freemium" model, but that too has similar root economic causes: the freemium model has created a software environment and culture that is so categorically stingy and abusive to its own userbase that "premium" or "pro" features have been getting pirated out of spite (and because they are increasingly just parts of the core experience being cut out and sold separately for total sums that are beyond the scope of what people can afford; see Sims 4 DLC and the DLC model ParadoxPlaza used to use). I think Zorin Pro showing up on pirating sites is just ZorinOS's very fair premium model getting hit in the crossfire of that erosion of what "premium" means.

I like this in principle. Unfortunately the people responsible for these disparities have a great deal of overlap with those who decide what counts as committing crimes, and they can and will (and have, historically) adjust those definitions to protect themselves and their advantaged position. But again, more of a broad systemic issue - I do agree that software piracy in general is not contributing to remedying these disparities.

I want to be clear here, as soon as I figure out whether or not the balenaEtcher the official installation instructions linked to bricked the 32GB SanDisk Cruzer I've been using for over a decade, I intend to purchase the pro version, because I respect this OS and I respect the people behind it. Maybe I'll make a thread about that balenaEtcher issue first, though... I think it might have corrupted the firmware somehow.

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I recommend Unetbootin. BalenaEtcher is notorious for messing up USB sticks.

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87

We have seen some serious issues with pirated pro versions. If they don't contain the Dell fix (although it effected others it was the first several complaints that the iso wouldn't boot), there were issues with changed configuration files causing errors we've never seen before in tandem with issues we have... and usually compiled upon themselves making installation a nightmare to troubleshoot. If you have a pirated copy, which you all but admitted, you should delete it and inform the moderators here or the Zorin's themselves, of the link. Download the free core and try it. It's the same, no lie, without installation support, bundled software and two desktop layouts. Trying pro to see if you like it makes you no different than others that believe they should have it regardless if they pay. There isn't any good reason to pirate software. They are all justifications to yourself why it's OK... and it's not.

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