The choice of Brave's enough to get me to replace Zorin

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I'm a Core user, rather than a paying one, so you'll not lose any money over this, but see headline.

Mozilla have made some odd moves recently, but I wouldn't be shocked if they back-pedalled on them and keeping their rendering engine rather than adopting Chromium's - as with virtually all the main alternatives outside Apple's Safari - is a huge plus for me.

When I saw the choice of Brave, and it described as "Privacy-respecting", my jaw dropped. We are talking about the people who installed VPNs on users PCs without asking, who changed affiliate links in URLs to their own, and really want to show you ads they make money from rather than anyone else.

That they're heavily into the crime against humanity that is crypto and also into LLM AI is just icing on a cake that leaves a very, very bad taste in my mouth.

I can uninstall it, but it's easier to just say bye to Zorin.

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You can not only simply uninstall it; You can delete the Repo, too. So, You wouldn't have it at all and add the Mozilla Repo again. But I understand Your Point.

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@Curious
I'm not going to be using Brave either, but as they are at this moment in time, they're the most stable choice.

I prefer to use Firefox forks, particularly ZEN. I've been using it since it was in alpha but now it's in beta and I've not had any issues for months.

What we need to embrace is that in Linux we ALL have the choice to install and use whatever browser we like the best.

The Zorin brothers have taken a lot of time over this decision, including asking forum members for their thoughts and suggestions. Please, take the time to read: The Buzz around Mozilla's New Terms of Use: The Buzz around Mozilla's New Terms of Use - #59 by AZorin

Hopefully, you'll understand why they made this decision.

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I can't say that I agree with your assessment of the situation. Brave is the most private browser out of the box:

Brave is also one of the very few pieces of software that actually follows an opt-in policy, rather than opt-out. That means that you have to explicitly enable some features, such as Wallet.

As for the VPN thing... it was only on Windows, the services were installed for genuine reasons (providing a better protocol for their VPN service) and they were, you guessed it: disabled by default. And as for pedalling back... guess what, the community complained and they actually listened, and fixed that.

One of the developers even took the time to address this personally:

https://old.reddit.com/r/brave_browser/comments/17b0pxl/brave_appears_to_install_vpn_services_without/

The affiliate links was a low blow, I'll agree, but it was only on specific sites not generalized.

Say what you will but Brave is one of the few companies that actually listens to the user base... which is incredibly rare these days. Vivaldi is another one, by the way, in case you're looking for another decent Chromium-based browser.

One other thing I don't understand, how come you complain about Brave using LLMs while Mozilla literally bought an entire company that works on that. For the explicit purpose of processing data, no less!

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It's easier to install a whole new OS than changing a browser?

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I genuinely don't understand such a massive pushback against Brave, when the reality is the other options also have their own problems to deal with, but those issues seemed to be ignored by these particular people. I don't get it, I never cared Firefox was the default, I simply installed what I use and moved on.

Btw I say massive pushback because I've seen it on r/Linux, people lost their minds, and some are even spreading false info that Brave is a crypto miner. Many responses seemed to be quite emotional, and ignored all arguments for using the browser, and that even though it's not perfect (obviously), it's the best choice at the moment. Also them listening to their community is such a big plus for me personally!

Why is the FOSS community so loyal to Firefox even when they make such insane blunders, but aggressively biased against Brave (who also make blunders), when they are both FOSS projects?

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The other day I was listening to the Coder Radio podcast (great one, recommended) and this one bit right here was the highlight of the episode for me. I took the time to look for the exact second :joy:

People do have strong opinions about technology and brands... but decisions should still be based on actual evidence, not feelings.

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I agree with you on this. @zenzen makes some points.
But to me, backpeddling is... not an excuse. Doing something shady, then "listening to the feedback" to undo it is not a valid exercise.

If I took your wallet out of your pocket and after listening to your feedback, put your wallet back, would all be forgiven?

Part of the issue here is that Mozilla (Firefox) listened to the feedback, then doubled down and refused to budge, resorting to weasel words to wiggle out of changing their new policy. So, they are showing no signs of backpeddling.

To me; FireFox is as guilty as what you describe others doing. The difference being that others at least recanted under pressure: Firefox chose not to.

When it comes to browsers, we are at the mercy of someone else:
Browsers cost money to develop but do not cost the user to install. To this end, they operate like Google or Facebook does, turning the End User into the Product and the Advertisers into the Customers.

They will take advantage of the End User at every opportunity.

The demand for browsers is very high; with development limited.

We Cannot Win. We really cannot. The concept of "Privacy" or "Security" have become marketable and are touted in disregard for reality.

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I agree. I sincerely hope Brave doesn't do any more shady things, because I don't think I could find another browser that could replace it (and have me like it).

:smiling_face_with_tear:

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Companies trying to make an extra buck on people's expense is not excusable, but I also think that while we shouldn't forget wrong deeds, we should reward good ones. Taking responsibility and amend the issue is a good start.

At some point, we need to start thinking pragmatically and move on, instead of staying angry forever. It's not like we're swimming in browsers, either... Mozilla's wounds will take time to close, though, that's for sure.

Meanwhile, Vivaldi has improved a lot since I last tried it, and I'm very happy with them:

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Is not synonymous with:

When someone breaks my trust, they will not easily earn it back. It does not mean I am angry or staying angry - but for valid reason: Lack Trust.

When a company demonstrates that they will try to get away with something, even if they backpeddle when caught; Now We Know that they will try again.

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My $ .02 worth .... I have been using Brave Browser for about 3 years and have had no issues with it .... it didn't try to force me to use its VPN or Search Engine .... Wallet or anything else it offers ..... I just turned those off ....

With all programs browsers included I immediately go into their settings and change out the things I like or dislike with it .....

I go to Youtube and do a search on the browser to see what settings the majority of folks recommend deleting or adding ....

I have changed VPN's several times while on Brave and now use Proton VPN's free version .....

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I am surprised zorin did not add a screen (like windows did in the past) during install to give users the choice wat browser they want to install.

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We are all adults and can still decide which browser we want to use after installation.

I understand the Zorin brothers and they had to make a decision.

Nevertheless, after a successful installation, we can add Firefox or other browsers or uninstall Brave (if not desired). So no problem so far and you don't have to make a problem out of it.
But parting with an operating system because of a browser? I personally can't understand that.

I currently still use Firefox and that is my free decision, just like back then on Windows. With Windows, I used Edge back then to install Chrome. :rofl:

Zorin is a very successful operating system and for me one of the best Windows alternatives I know. No matter which browser it is delivered with.

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I agree with many of the posts here. Reality is, Firefox sold themselves out for a buck, lied about it, backpedaled when questioned about it. Reality is, they are acting like any other greedy corporation, like Microsoft for example.

They lie, and lie some more, and the lying and shady behavior never stops. Firefox used to be an amazing browser, to get people off of garbage Internet Explorer. Their policy used to be security first, no data mining.

As you can see, it only took a couple decades for them to change their minds on that one. Now they are about using your data without paying you a cut. (Literally one of the largest scams in internet history, for which there are no government regulations to protect us from)

Most people who are ok with being data mind, are Windows users. I've literally heard a distant family member say, they don't care, so they stay on Windows, and refuse to even try Linux! Just sad.

I haven't used the Brave browser yet, but from what I've learned about it, seems like a decent alternative to Firefox. The Zorin team did their research, (more then most people do) and they deemed it safe.

The devs did the right thing by disabling the not so legit features, so as to keep the browser safe to use for newbies who don't know this stuff. Of course, anybody who needs such features, can freely turn them back on.

I for one, strongly believe, the Zorin team made the right choice, and I stand behind them.

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After listening to their users! A big plus for the devs and Zorin OS :sparkling_heart:

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I've just been reminded of more reasons not to trust Brave with your privacy:

  • They messed up their implementation of Tor, so that the .onion domains you visited were shown to your DNS provider (typically your ISP)

  • Their web crawler bot takes its privacy seriously: it doesn't admit it's from Brave - because people might block it! - but they will happily sell the results of the crawl to LLM AI companies

There's more at Why I recommend against Brave

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It's because of the reasons given for choosing the browser. When it comes to privacy, Brave have repeatedly shown themselves to be incompetent and untrustworthy.

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Which browser do you find confident using?

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Which other browser fulfills all the criteria set by the devs? If you know of one, you can make a suggestion.