The choice of Brave's enough to get me to replace Zorin

I'm also curious about your browser of choice, if you don't mind sharing. I have found that using more than one is always a good idea, if nothing else to have a backup plan if things go south.

As for your concerns regarding privacy, I took the time to read through that article and I have to say that I'm not very impressed. Let me share some thoughts:

2016 — Brave Browser promises to replace webpage ads

This feature that is being criticized would actually make the end user's experience more private. Ads today are more than just a reserved space for companies to put a banner on. They are silently interactive with the website in which they are injected, and continuously track your behavior, even across multiple domains. Blocking them is the only way to protect the user's privacy.

Brave's strategy consists in placing ads while providing an alternative that still brings revenue to the website and the advertiser. But, regardless of what Brave does or doesn't do afterward, blocking the ad increases privacy. Claiming that Brave is private for blocking ads makes no sense.

If the intent of this point is to highlight how unethical Brave is for taking away website's ability to generate revenue, I think it's pretty obvious to anyone in 2025 that the use of ad blockers has exploded over the past decade. In the worst case scenario, Brave would've been giving a fair chance of slowing down this trend.

In case you're unaware of how Brave's ads work: they are downloaded on the user's device upfront, and served from the device locally. This way, the advertiser wouldn't have been able to track the user's very move. But, again, the trend was and still is to block ads altogether, and Brave does that anyway so...


2020 — Brave injects referral links when visiting crypto wallets

To be clear, it was the same referral code for everyone, because it was hard-wired to identify the browser. This means that as far as privacy goes, the only piece of information that was leaked was the fact that the user was using Brave browser.

I'm not saying that this was okay, but this wasn't as bad as Luca (the author of the article you linked to) makes it sound like. And, it was promptly addressed and fixed.

By the way, pretty ironic that every single link in the article has a referral link attached to it, while complaining about that referral links.


2020 — Brave puts ads in user's home screens

The main criticism here seems to be with how Brave decided to use the Home and New Tab pages to advertise their own features (Brave Rewards). Fair enough, but there's no invasion of privacy here, it's just a background image. There are no ads unless you enable them explicitly.

I stand corrected, it looks like there are links in some places on the image:

However, contrary to the claims on the article, it can be turned off through the Customize button on the lower right:

Despite the chance of clicking on this accidentally, I still maintain that this isn't a huge deal. Particularly if this is disabled by default in Zorin OS, which I believe it is (my VM was upgraded from 17.2).

I should also mention that Mozilla has been using this same space to promote their own (Pocket) and sponsored content. The difference being that Brave Rewards is disabled by default, and Firefox's Pocket and sponsored content aren't.

It seems to me that if this point is one of the reasons you are leaving Zorin OS, you are walking in the wrong direction.


2021 - Brave ships an insecure Tor feature

I wish things like this never happened to any browser. Since this is impossible (all software has bugs) the next best thing we can ask for is for them to be fixed quickly.

Sure enough, the very article cited as the source of this news contains the following update:

Update: Minutes after this article went live, the Brave team announced a formal fix on Twitter.


2024 - So-called "privacy browser" deprecated advanced fingerprinting protection

The criticism here seems to be that Brave removed a feature that made ad blockers so aggressive that a lot of websites weren't working properly, if at all.
Again, fair enough, this technically reduces the number of options that users have to protect their privacy. However, it's important to understand how browser fingerprint works, in order to understand why this decision was made.

What this article conveniently neglects to report is the number of users that are actually affected by this decision, and how. Very surprising, in fact, considering that the screenshot they are using is taken from an article with the following text:

Another issue is that Strict mode is used by roughly 0.5% of Brave's users, with the rest using the default setting, which is the Standard mode.

This low percentage actually makes these users more vulnerable to fingerprinting despite them using the more aggressive blocker, because they constitute a discernible subset of users standing out from the rest.

Speaking of being untrustworthy :roll_eyes:

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I find it very interesting how I've been seeing more and more people outspoken against Brave soon after Mozilla's controversial change of their TOU :thinking:. I don't know if I'm being a lil crazy, but this is what I noticed - without actively looking for this type of content. I wonder if anyone else had a similar experience.

Mozilla's new TOU

People recommending against Brave

The article linked by the user Curious in this thread:

Nicco Loves Linux Youtuber posting this video I got in my recommendations:

The Linux Experiment posting this video I also got in my recommendations:

The last example is different, because the video is 'Members only' and I do not have access to it, so I don't know what exactly Nick said. I can't assume he advises against using Brave like in the previous two examples where it's explicit, but I thought this was interesting to note nonetheless.

The association with cryptocurrencies seems to be enough to make some people immediately cross Brave from the list. Considering the amount of scams that have happened and how volatile they are, it's not all that surprising.

But these journalists would be doing everyone a favor by being informative about Brave's strengths as a realistic alternative to Chrome. For example, by explaining that most of the non-desirable features are disable by default and how to disable the rest.

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In the early days of Zorin they were the first GNU/Linux OS with a Browser Chooser. Default was Chrome but you could install Opera, Firefox, or Midori:

As for the most secure browser, palemoon is the best (see my Browser Audit results in the 'buzz around Firefox' thread.
I'm using Zen Beta as my main browser but also use palemoon and chromium ... but I don't use Zorin any more apart from a VM for resolving issues where needed regarding posts on here. I'm down to using PCLOS Debian as my main driver alongside Q4OS.

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That seems great, I wonder why they don't do that anymore.

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Agreed.
But PaleMoon also does not work properly with Discourse - including this forum...

I suspect IceCat won't either. A secure browser won't use insecure Java scripts. Chromium got the same score as Brave. Interestingly Chromium is the default browser for Q4OS.

Me too. FerenOS picked up on this and still does AFAIK. PCLOS Debian contributor Upgreyed (love his moniker) wrote Browser Installer, but for me it did not work. That said they do have a lot of browsers in their Synaptic, the only GNU/Linux distro with Zen browser in Synaptic. I also like the fact that Synaptic is used for updates, plus no bloatware of systemd, and pipewire for audio (no pulseaudio, period!) :sunglasses:

That is a good Question. They could offer it and let the User choose if they want install Firefox, Brave, none of them or both.

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Thanks, @zenzen , for taking the time to write such a thorough post!

One of the most important takeaways from the argument against Brave is what the ZORIN brothers have done to mitigate a lot of the privacy issues in the version that gets shipped with Zorin 17.3.

There are always some people that won't agree, or be happy with any decision, but - even though I won't be using Brave, because it's based on Chromium - I support the decision to use it in favour of Firefox. There wasn't another close contender that fits the criterion. Plus, if you don't like it, you can change it. I know that I, and a lot of other Zorin_OS users will....

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Thanks to @zenzen, i now how a more understanding of what really happened to Brave and i no longer feel like they're a browser i want to use in terms of privacy.

I have for years been using Vivaldi and i really like them. For some reason, each time i mentioned them - absolutely no one has even heard of them.

For those who don't know, here's a quick TLDR about the Vivaldi browser and Team.

Here's Vivaldi's own quote from their website:

"We’re building a browser that is powerful, personal and private. A browser that adapts to you, not the other way around."

Their HQ is set in Oslo, Norway. With more offices in Iceland and the U.S. Vivaldi is not owned by some big-tech company, so decisions are made by the community and Vivaldi employees.

I wasn't actually aware of this, but they already have a fair share of users. Statistics below are directly from their website.

Why Vivaldi?
Its known for being customizable. You can pretty much customize anything imaginable.

Vivaldi is owned by its employees.
And we plan to keep it that way.

Having no external investors gives us the freedom to listen to our users and, together with them, build the browser they deserve. Every idea counts and is taken seriously.

Source: Vivaldi.com

Extensions
Since it is based on the open-source chromium browser, it is compatible with all your favourite chrome extensions.

Privacy
While i care about privacy in browsers, i will say that i am no privacy or security expert. With a quick search on ddg, i stumbled upon this reddit thread:

Vivaldi's CEO has an impeccable track record of fighting for more privacy that goes back to the 1990's. They explain the network traffic created by Vivaldi in detail.

As the decision to use Brave has already been made, and implemented into the latest ISO image. I'm guessing there won't be a browser change anytime soon, but I've used Vivaldi since 2017 or so and they keep surprising me with amazing features.

I really think Vivaldi should be up for consideration if Brave are saying its goodbyes with all thats been happening lately.

I tried Vivaldi a while ago, and I liked how customizable it was. I put it in the back of my mind as a backup should things go south with Brave.

Unfortunately Vivaldi is not fully open source afaik, so I don't think the devs will choose it as a replacement.

That is also something to be discussed. While some context is needed, most of Vivaldi is actually already open-source.

Note that, of the three layers above, only the UI layer is closed-source. Roughly 92% of the browser’s code is open source coming from Chromium, 3% is open source coming from us, which leaves only 5% for our UI closed-source code.

Source: Why isn’t Vivaldi browser open-source? | Vivaldi Browser

Its all about them keeping their brand private, see quote:

If Vivaldi browser is so close to being released under a unified open-source license, why haven’t we taken that leap?

It comes down to protecting the heart and soul of our browser. For it’s Vivaldi’s UI that truly makes the browser unique. In terms of code, it is our most valuable asset.

Source: Why isn’t Vivaldi browser open-source? | Vivaldi Browser

The source i provided (same link for both) quotes. Its worth a read as they go in-depth as to why they do not want to go complete open-source.

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That's great to know! Maybe I'll look into it Vivaldi a bit more to see what they offer.

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I think the reason they chose to install a browser is because Zorin is designed for a person coming from Windows or Mac to receive the easiest and fastest way to get up and running right out of the box without having to make changes to the OS ..... and a browser is critical for finding the programs you wish to add later .....

When I came from Win 10 to Zorin I had to use Firefox the default browser to switch to Vivaldi which I used back then ....

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That would be still the Case. You would only get a Window with something like:

What Browser do You want?

  • Firefox
  • Brave
  • Both
  • None

And then You click on what You want and that's it. That can happen during the Installation Process.

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Good point ... that could work ....

I was trying to argue the opposite of that! :joy:

All the claims made about Brave not being private are easily refuted and proven untrue. Every article criticizing Brave always has the same list... as if by sheer repetition those issues would suddenly pop right back. Many of those claims point to issues that were already fixed and yet they continue to poke on them for some reason. By their rationale, we shouldn't be using any software at all, since you'll find bugs in all software.
What's most impressive to me about this particular article is that is published by a site that claims to provide "accurate analysis of the Linux and Open Source world". How is it accurate to say that a company that fixes bugs is insecure, or doesn't care about privacy? Yet, the same lie goes around and around...

However, I do agree that Vivaldi has come a long way. It's really satisfying watching a project have a bumpy and improve over time. Just a few years ago I wouldn't have recommended it because I've always had issues with it, but as of a few weeks ago I'm really impressed with them. They also have proven to be a reliable company, although I'd still give them some buffer until I can fully endorse them at the same degree of quality as Brave.

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I don't want this to sound like a "remove Brave or else" sort of post, but I have to agree with the sentiment of distrusting Brave both for the reasons outlined in this thread (and other sources), and also for personal reasons.

As I understand from The Register's coverage of this change, the Zorin team selected Brave because it is open source and is actively maintained.

Would, then, Mullvad's browser (repo here) be an option? Their VPN seems to have a good reputation among privacy enthusiasts (for what that's worth), and as I understand it's a fork of Firefox that's actively maintained.

Either way, I think ultimately an option at time of install would be ideal so that individuals can choose in alignment with their preferences.

I have actually opposed Firefox for years. It came as default on Zorin OS.
So, I simply installed my preferred browser and made it default.

Then, Mozilla did some further hoisting itself up by its own petard, enough to get more deserved recognition for its failings.

When it comes to browsers, opinions can be strongly divided. I do not believe that there is a winning choice where all users will nod and say, "Yeah, I can live with that."

The Register points out:

He explained that this caused his biz concerns about the rapidity of security fixes and of longer-term support. The version of Brave in Zorin has been customized:

… to improve the user experience in Brave, in particular around the visibility of some optional auxiliary features around cryptocurrency and AI, which come disabled as standard. This led us to include custom default settings that hide features like Brave Rewards, Wallet, Leo AI, sponsored backgrounds, and Brave News.

These are quite significant changes, and to be fair, they do address many of our concerns. Of course, users can still install any alternative they wish.

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